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Old 06-05-2016, 12:50 PM
 
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The issue really has to do with what was intended by what was said in each of those quotes, and in their larger contexts.

The verse from Matthew is, perhaps, the clearest in meaning. It states that there is a significant difference between simply addressing the speaker, in this case Jesus, as “Lord” and actually “doing the will” of his father in heaven. The difference being whether one may gain entrance to the kingdom or not.

For the interested reader, then, the question then becomes, “What is the will of the Father?” Here one may apply a basic rule of interpreting the bible, and that is “scripture answers scripture.” With that in mind, quoted in John 6:40 (i.e., John, chapter 6, verse 40), Jesus states:

For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Finally, if we look at the other two verses that were mentioned (from Romans chapter 10, & Acts chapter 2), in the context of the larger passages they are part of, we see that what is meant by “calling on the name of the Lord” is, in fact, “looking to the Son (Jesus) and believing in him” in much the same way as in John 6:40.

Starting in Romans 10:9 it says, “If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

In Acts 2:38 and 39 the apostle Peter goes on to say:
“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
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Old 06-05-2016, 01:05 PM
 
Location: USA
17,161 posts, read 11,386,780 times
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Originally Posted by JPierrel'homme View Post
Here one may apply a basic rule of interpreting the bible, and that is “scripture answers scripture.”
I've heard that said often. Can you tell me where the bible says that that is a basic rule?

Tia.
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Old 06-05-2016, 01:47 PM
 
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When I say “rule” I mean “method of critical explanation,” not biblical directive. It has, at least in part, to do with understanding verses and passages of scripture in their larger contexts. A simply analogy would be following all of the steps outlined in a recipe, not just going with the part that says to “beat two eggs”, in order to get cookies.

Although, a case can be made, based on biblical scripture for establishing authorial intent, the authority of the text, and the validity (or lack thereof) of biblical interpretation.
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Old 06-05-2016, 05:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
I've heard that said often. Can you tell me where the bible says that that is a basic rule?
It doesn't, Pleroo, but you knew that.
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Old 06-05-2016, 05:47 PM
 
Location: USA
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It doesn't, Pleroo, but you knew that.
I didn't think so, but sometimes people surprise me.
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Old 06-05-2016, 06:00 PM
 
63,785 posts, read 40,053,123 times
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Originally Posted by JPierrel'homme View Post
When I say “rule” I mean “method of critical explanation,” not biblical directive. It has, at least in part, to do with understanding verses and passages of scripture in their larger contexts. A simply analogy would be following all of the steps outlined in a recipe, not just going with the part that says to “beat two eggs”, in order to get cookies.
Although, a case can be made, based on biblical scripture for establishing authorial intent, the authority of the text, and the validity (or lack thereof) of biblical interpretation.
The travesty of this benighted biblical interpretation has been the use of the barbaric OT concept of barbaric blood sacrifices to appease God as the "larger context." It has completely corrupted Christ's Gospel and the concept of God and His motives. Those barbaric blood sacrifices were never required and only primitive barbarians would ever have thought so. The retention of this ignorant barbarity into the 21st century is inexplicable other than to note that human beings are perverse. Clearly, the concept served several religious agendas and that is why it has thrived.
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Old 06-05-2016, 06:04 PM
 
Location: USA
17,161 posts, read 11,386,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPierrel'homme View Post
When I say “rule” I mean “method of critical explanation,” not biblical directive. It has, at least in part, to do with understanding verses and passages of scripture in their larger contexts. A simply analogy would be following all of the steps outlined in a recipe, not just going with the part that says to “beat two eggs”, in order to get cookies.

Although, a case can be made, based on biblical scripture for establishing authorial intent, the authority of the text, and the validity (or lack thereof) of biblical interpretation.
This assumes that the bible is a cohesive whole, which it does not declare itself to be.
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Old 06-05-2016, 06:31 PM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,570,234 times
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Romans 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Acts 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved

Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Thoughts?
plucked out of contexted its kind of hard to tell.

calling to a person and asking him for help? or calling out his name to get his attention?
Calling out his name to find out who he is so youcan give him what for?

just a few quickies.
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Romans 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Acts 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved

Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Thoughts?
I quite agree that context is important but I certainly disagree with the game others are playing. In every other context they will equate being saved with entering the kingdom of heaven, and only change this here when it is inconvenient. The interesting thing is that when you really look at the context in the actual Bible you will see there is no contradiction and both Romans 10:13 and Matthew 7:21 are really saying the same thing.

The context of Romans 10:13 is Pauls comparison of legalism with the gospel of God's grace or as he puts in Romans 10, the righteousness based on the law and the the righteousness based on faith. And how does Paul draw the line between these two? The legalists imagine that they can say who goes to heaven and who goes to hell while those who live by faith in the grace of God don't even ask such a question. To live by faith means not worrying about who goes to heaven and who goes to hell but simply put your faith in God -- to stop looking for what is in it for you and just do what is right and good as best you are able.

The context of Matthew 7:21 is Jesus is talking about people who think they are entitled, Jesus is saying that they are wrong. Those with a feeling of entitlement do not have a relationship with Him. They have totally missed what this is all about. They have not put their faith in God but in themselves and their own judgement of themselves as righteous.

The context of Acts 2:21 Peter speaking of the Pentecost in fulfillment of the prophesy of Joel which he is quoting.
Joel 2: 28 “And it shall come to pass afterward,
that I will pour out my spirit on all flesh;
your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
your old men shall dream dreams,
and your young men shall see visions.
29 Even upon the menservants and maidservants
in those days, I will pour out my spirit.
30 “And I will give portents in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes. 32 And it shall come to pass that all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be delivered; for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls.

In this case Joel is indeed not speaking of salvation and the kingdom of heaven but surviving the calamities which he is predicting. In such a case it would be a bit of a stretch to claim that Paul is making a theological claim that all it takes to be saved is to call out the name of the Lord. On contrary, I think it is clear that what Paul is doing is comparing what is happening in the Pentacost to the words of Joel and saying that these people they see are calling out to God because they have been called out by God and God has filled their minds with truth and their spirit with the grace of God.
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Old 06-06-2016, 07:46 AM
 
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The two verses mean the same thing but the wicked fail to have understanding in order to do what is right and enter the kingdom of heaven.
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