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So, basically, you are right and everyone else is wrong if they don't follow your beliefs. Gotchya.
None of us have all the right answers. We base our beliefs on our own soul progress. What you deem is right may not be right to anyone else. It's just your beliefs. Sorry bub. I don't follow the bible. I follow those who know way more than us and who have experienced this and the spirit life. The bible is only part, and very little I might add, of what the truth is. Read other books, especially spiritual books. Books that do help with the soul progress and not just books on the do's and don't's of religion. Religion is just following what someone else believes without doing your own research. When you read those books, look into your heart for Truth. If it doesn't speak with Love and all that is Truth, Beauty and Goodness, then it's not real.
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was, is and always will be LOVE. Love is what resonates within us and, depending on how much of Love we have, is how much Truth we will know. Not natural love that we are born with but Divine Love that we must acquire.
Rev,
You make some very good points but your knowledge based on books you have read can also be a problem. I do read books, as well, and I know that authors have limitations. You have read someone's opinion, not from the Holy Spirit.
I wish I had any knowledge of my own - but I know I am empty personally. However, I know that the Holy Spirit is now on earth and is the one to teach. Any other knowledge from any source is incomplete. Jesus Christ admitted that his message was incomplete as well. The Holy Spirit is my teacher. I take glory in him.
I need to clarify here - not everything is compiled in the Bible. A lot of other books contain the divine truths as well, but the Bible is head and shoulders above them overall. Books cannot take you there, and I include the Bible in that. Without the knowledge from the Holy Spirit, our knowledge is half baked. That is why in this forum some contributors often raise issues that if you permit me to say, exposes the lack of the Holy Spirit. But we are in the forum to learn and to spread the word of God. The show must go on!
And Christianity is full of all types of people who do not practice love and who have not attained the accurate knowledge of the truth. I don't judge a man by his religion, but by your practices of the divine tenets which is universal. It is not easy to practice love if you have not been thought by the only qualified teacher... you will suffer from a little learning, which is a dangerous thing!
You make some very good points but your knowledge based on books you have read can also be a problem. I do read books, as well, and I know that authors have limitations. You have read someone's opinion, not from the Holy Spirit.
I wish I had any knowledge of my own - but I know I am empty personally. However, I know that the Holy Spirit is now on earth and is the one to teach. Any other knowledge from any source is incomplete. Jesus Christ admitted that his message was incomplete as well. The Holy Spirit is my teacher. I take glory in him.
I need to clarify here - not everything is compiled in the Bible. A lot of other books contain the divine truths as well, but the Bible is head and shoulders above them overall. Books cannot take you there, and I include the Bible in that. Without the knowledge from the Holy Spirit, our knowledge is half baked. That is why in this forum some contributors often raise issues that if you permit me to say, exposes the lack of the Holy Spirit. But we are in the forum to learn and to spread the word of God. The show must go on!
And Christianity is full of all types of people who do not practice love and who have not attained the accurate knowledge of the truth. I don't judge a man by his religion, but by your practices of the divine tenets which is universal. It is not easy to practice love if you have not been thought by the only qualified teacher... you will suffer from a little learning, which is a dangerous thing!
That is why we must take everything we read to heart, ponder it and if it speaks of Love then we may carry it. If it doesn't, we let it go. People are fallible just as their writings are fallible. Love is the only real in this world and when it is practiced in all things, we overcome all things. So, it doesn't matter if one reads the bible, koran or any other religious book. If the person reading it does not retain the Love and let the rest go, that person will carry the false teachings and not rise above through love.
I do have to disagree that the bible is above all other books. It's the worst horror story ever written and there are a ton of other books through which we can grow in God's Love without all the violence. There are a lot of spiritually uplifted people in the world who are far more Divine that share their knowledge of the Truths of God. Those are what I read. If I want to read horror, I read a horror book but for spiritual enlightenment, I read only those books that do just that and have no negativity contained in them. No worries though. We each have our "crutch" and when it's all said and done, we are who we have to answer to and no one else.
That is why we must take everything we read to heart, ponder it and if it speaks of Love then we may carry it. If it doesn't, we let it go. People are fallible just as their writings are fallible. Love is the only real in this world and when it is practiced in all things, we overcome all things. So, it doesn't matter if one reads the bible, koran or any other religious book. If the person reading it does not retain the Love and let the rest go, that person will carry the false teachings and not rise above through love.
I do have to disagree that the bible is above all other books. It's the worst horror story ever written and there are a ton of other books through which we can grow in God's Love without all the violence. There are a lot of spiritually uplifted people in the world who are far more Divine that share their knowledge of the Truths of God. Those are what I read. If I want to read horror, I read a horror book but for spiritual enlightenment, I read only those books that do just that and have no negativity contained in them. No worries though. We each have our "crutch" and when it's all said and done, we are who we have to answer to and no one else.
Love is the ultimate and love is God. But for a non believer what happens to your relationship with God when you inevitably sin and fall out of love? how do you get Love back, how do you atone for your sins? That is where Christ comes in. By recognizing his blood shed for all of us and confessing it, God wipes away our sins and keeps us in his Love.
When you fall you need a strong hand to pull you up and set you right. That hand is God, who came in the form of man to shed his blood as a ransom for man. Confess him and be free.
Love is the ultimate and love is God. But for a non believer what happens to your relationship with God when you inevitably sin and fall out of love? how do you get Love back, how do you atone for your sins? That is where Christ comes in. By recognizing his blood shed for all of us and confessing it, God wipes away our sins and keeps us in his Love.
When you fall you need a strong hand to pull you up and set you right. That hand is God, who came in the form of man to shed his blood as a ransom for man. Confess him and be free.
The natural love we are born with is fallible. Divine Love comes from God and is the rock that Jesus spoke of in the bible. If we do not build on the rock, our foundations will fall. I pray for and receive Divine Love so my foundation is extremely solid. My past sins are gone however, I am workingon the inclination to sin.
When we obtain the substance of God, Divine Love, we become sin free and we have no inclinations to sin. Jesus' blood and sacrifice do not do those things. My belief in the man, the blood and the sacrifice are not necessary. The belief in the teachings of Jesus, Divine Love, are necessary. Without the substance to give you a new heart, you cannot enter the Kingdom of God.
It was God that led me to this Love because I asked Him to show me His Truth. I believe in God and His Love and when I first received it, I truely knew then that it was real and everlasting. I saw what perfection was and I felt total peace. Nothing is better than that. Now it trickles in and I know without a doubt that someday, in the spirit world, I will be in His Kingdom.
You keep your belief in Jesus because that is where you are but don't "sell" me on your truth because I do know that Love is the key to the Kingdom of God. Everything else is just extra.
When you consider these things, it is clear that in the Universe or multiverse, the earth is the oldest. At the time of creation, time as we know it now did not exist. It only existed and can only be counted from Adam. I agree that man is @ 6000 years on earth, but to say that the earth is 6000 years is totally wrong. It is also wrong to say that creation took 7 days. A day of creation could be any physical time span. Did it take 24 hours for the plants to germinate and bear fruit in the garden? Or did it take 24 hours for the animals and fishes to grow? How long did it take Jesus to rise from the dead? (3 days) How long did it take Jesus to feed five thousand? (just a prayer) How long did it take Jesus to calm a storm? (just a word) I never under estimate God. He can and is able to change me in the twinkling of an eye.
When God said 3 days to rise, I believe Him. When God says 6 days to create the earth, heavens and mankind, I believe Him.
To say the earth is 6000 years old or not-God knows.
Man has been on earth far longer than 6,000 years. We have documented evidence of civilizations existing much longer than that. Heck, the early Egyptians began about 7500 years ago and they aren't the oldest civilization.
Man has been on earth far longer than 6,000 years. We have documented evidence of civilizations existing much longer than that. Heck, the early Egyptians began about 7500 years ago and they aren't the oldest civilization.
Why do they find modern human fossils in strata containing supposedly human homidid ancestors or dinosaur prints and disregard the evidence by shelving it? Is that scientific?
Why do they find modern human fossils in strata containing supposedly human homidid ancestors or dinosaur prints and disregard the evidence by shelving it? Is that scientific?
Claims of human tracks occurring alongside dinosaur tracks have not stood up to close scientific scrutiny, and in recent years have been largely abandoned even by most creationists. Although genuine dinosaur tracks are abundant in Texas, the alleged Paluxy "man tracks" involve a variety of misidentified phenomena. The most celebrated "man tracks" on the Taylor Site are forms of "metatarsal" dinosaur tracks--made by dinosaurs which, at least at times, made elongate prints by impressing their metatarsi (soles and heels) as they walked, rather than walking on their toes only. When the digit marks on such elongate/metatarsal tracks are subdued by sediment infilling, mud- collapse, erosion, or a combination of factors, the metatarsal segment at the rear often presents an oblong shape that roughly resembles a large human footprint. Other alleged "man tracks" include erosional features and indistinct markings of uncertain origin, some of which were enhanced with water or oil at times to appear more human. A smaller number of "man tracks" are outright carvings or heavily doctored depressions (most of these occur on loose blocks of rock). Claims of other "out of order" fossils and artifacts from Texas and elsewhere are also not supported by compelling scientific evidence.
However, most no longer use the Paluxy tracks among their arguments, and major creationist organizations such as ICR and AIG have advised that the Paluxy tracks not be cited as evidence against evolution. Continuing "man track" claims by a few individuals such as Carl Baugh and Don Patton have not stood up to close scrutiny
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Baugh
Both scientists and creationists have criticized Baugh's claims. In 1982–1984, several scientists, including J.R. Cole, L.R. Godfrey, R.J. Hastings, and S.D. Schafersman, examined Baugh's purported "mantracks" as well as others provided by creationists in the Glen Rose Formation.[12] In the course of the examination "Baugh contradicted his own earlier reports of the locations of key discoveries" and many of the supposed prints "lacked human characteristics."[12]After a three year investigation of the tracks and Baugh's specimens, the scientists concluded there was no evidence of any of Baugh's claims or any "dinosaur-man tracks".[12]
On September 27, 1984, Al West, a Baugh co-worker for two years, who followed the mantrack claims since 1974, and friend of Glen Kuban, publicly announced that Baugh "never had evidence for manprints as claimed.[12] Gayle Golden, writer for The Dallas Morning News, reported that Baugh "paid $10,000 for his Moab skeleton and confirmed that Baugh knew at their purchase that the bones had already been dated at 200-300 years. However Baugh later claimed that the bones were found in Cretaceous deposits."[
Creationist organizations such as Answers in Genesis have criticized Baugh's claims saying he "muddied the water for many Christians. . . . People are being misled."[4] Don Batten, of Creation Ministries International wrote: "Some Christians will try to use Baugh's 'evidences' in witnessing and get 'shot down' by someone who is scientifically literate. The ones witnessed to will thereafter be wary of all creation evidences and even more inclined to dismiss Christians as nut cases not worth listening to."[
Baugh has claimed several degrees, at one point professing to earning three doctorates.[28]All three "doctorates" are from unaccredited "schools."
When Answers in Genesis and other Creation institutions consider you a fraud, you seriously suck at trying to do science. Do you creationists ever bother to research the crap you spew as evidence? Do you even know what science is?
When you consider these things, it is clear that in the Universe or multiverse, the earth is the oldest. At the time of creation, time as we know it now did not exist. It only existed and can only be counted from Adam. I agree that man is @ 6000 years on earth, but to say that the earth is 6000 years is totally wrong. It is also wrong to say that creation took 7 days. A day of creation could be any physical time span. Did it take 24 hours for the plants to germinate and bear fruit in the garden? Or did it take 24 hours for the animals and fishes to grow? How long did it take Jesus to rise from the dead? (3 days) How long did it take Jesus to feed five thousand? (just a prayer) How long did it take Jesus to calm a storm? (just a word) I never under estimate God. He can and is able to change me in the twinkling of an eye.
When God said 3 days to rise, I believe Him. When God says 6 days to create the earth, heavens and mankind, I believe Him.
To say the earth is 6000 years old or not-God knows.
God Bless,
Mercy
I hear you Mercy.
God is the greatest scientist and does his stuff in mysterious ways. I was trying to point out that before time began, it would have been impossible for us to call a day as 24 hrs. We simply do not know. It is best to acknowledge our limitation in knowledge rather than extrapolate blindly.
You mentioned the miracles of Christ, but you forget that those were in the contest of a well defined time span and not relevant to the discourse.
Christ said he will be coming soon, his disciples expected him in their lifetime, but he did not come. He told them that he came down from heaven - did anybody see him coming down? The key here is understanding and perspective. If you read the Bible without the Holy Spirit, then you might as well be reading a novel - many things will be hidden from you.
Have you ever wonder how God, the universe or multi-verse, Christ , angels began? Sure, Moses has an account in the Bible, but it is not detailed enough- some important stuff have been omitted. Today, it pleases the Father to reveal the beginning of all things.
When you hear beginning, it is nice to put it in contest. In the beginning could mean the beginning of creation, the beginning of the earth, the beginning of God. A word of caution here - The phenomenon we call God is really the Holy Spirit or Spirit Air that has no beginning and who has always existed.
The phrase, ' in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. The same was in the beginning with God,' is a very familiar bible portion - John1, vs 1-2. I have highlighted the two 'beginning' words used in that bible portion. The blue beginning is the beginning of creation of the world, the 2nd beginning is the beginning before that, before creation but not the beginning of of all beginnings - when God existed as Spirit alone
To help us understand how everything started let us examine Moses account in Genesis.
In the beginning, God created heaven and earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was in the face of the Deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The first verse, was a summary of what happened at creation, while the second was a veiled attempt to explain how God created heaven and Earth. The 2nd verse is the most important verse in trying to understand creation. At the time the spirit of God was moving in the waters what was in existence? Why and how then was water made? Who was that water?
Keep these queries in mind, because we will dig deeper, but what the portion is confirming is that in the beginning of all beginnings all the Godhead was collapsed into one - The Spirit Air or the Holy Spirit. Spirit Air means an ever-present spirit. That was the Spirit of God moving upon the face of the waters.
For clarity, John 17:5, And now O Father glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Note the term 'before the world was'. That is the beginning of the world (creation), not the beginning of all beginnings. God's real self is the Holy Spirit. You cannot see the Spirit, but yet it is everywhere. The glory Christ shared with God was the Holy Spirit, Christ the word, being the first creation (manifestation) of that Holy Spirit.
Grab a coffee before I continue. As you drink your coffee, imagine you are in a room alone with no one else around. What would you do to get people around you?
Welcome Back
You would think and you will speak. Exactly. Your thought process will come out as words. God's thought process needed to come out to words before creation started.
So the Spirit Air or Holy Spirit, who existed as Hot Air, duplicated himself as Cold Air, to form Water. The movement of the Hot Air over the water created vibrations or sound which is the Word, which is Christ and who also is God. This moment in creation was what Gen 1:2 captured but did not elaborate on. It is after this moment that God now used the Word for Creation. That water signifies God or Christ on a physical plane. That is why it is said that in heaven 3 things signify God: Father, Word and Holy Spirit. On earth Blood, Water and Spirit - Blood means Man, Water means Christ, and Spirit means the Father. That was why Jesus said the things you do to your neighbor you do it onto God, meaning that God is in every one of us.
From this water (Christ), the earth and the multi-verse were created. If you go to any planet, you will see signs that show that water exists or had existed there. Our own habitable earth is made of water. Water on earth or in the physical plane signifies Christ.
It was the Word that was spoken that created angels (if only they had known). Man was not the first creature on earth. These angels, lived with God on the newly created earth but their duty was to serve him and minister to him. They look like God but were lower in all aspects. In that initial time, the heaven (spiritual abode) and earth were one. The angels did not need to eat, like men. The Word meanwhile was always with the Father (embedded) until it pleased the Father to manifest Him. A curious saga was about to unfold.
The most popular angel - Lucifer , who was also a General in the angel-hood, a great musician and who ministered to God through music did not follow the instruction of God to worship the Word. He made it clear that he would not 'worship the small boy', rebelling against God. This incident, as matter of fact, was necessary in order for God to create man. The negative (lower self) and the positive forces (higher self) of nature were differentiated at this point.
Angels fetched the dust that was used to create man but again were disappointed that the earth or kingdom was given to man to superintend. Out of jealousy, Lucifer, came to deceive Eve and drive man out of the garden. We know the rest. But God knowing that it is man that he reserved the kingdom for had planned to come himself as the son to salvage man and this he did by entering the spirit of a man called Jesus Christ. If you examine the role of Lucifer critically, you will discover, that without his perfidy we (you and I) would not have been born. Remember that God said to Adam and Eve - multiply and fill the earth. That instruction could not have been carried out in Holiness. It needed sin, it needed Lucifer. God knows the beginning from the end!
When you consider these things, it is clear that in the Universe or multiverse, the earth is the oldest. At the time of creation, time as we know it now did not exist. It only existed and can only be counted from Adam. I agree that man is @ 6000 years on earth, but to say that the earth is 6000 years is totally wrong. It is also wrong to say that creation took 7 days. A day of creation could be any physical time span. Did it take 24 hours for the plants to germinate and bear fruit in the garden? Or did it take 24 hours for the animals and fishes to grow?
Let me stop here. Peace in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.
Genesis has always been very interesting to me. The account of the beginning in Genesis, that beginning refers to the beginning of modern humans. That's why it starts with God hovering over the waters but doesn't talk about when or how God made the water. Then it says the earth was without form and was void/empty. Genesis says in the beginning God created everything, then skips to saying the earth was without form and was empty and mentions waters over the earth. Then it says He made man and told man to replinish or refill the earth. I think the thing that took place in Genesis in the 6 days was not God creating the earth but Him reforming the earth and seperating the waters so that dry land appeared etc. I believe somehting happened before Genesis and Genesis is just our beginning of life as we know it. In the very beginning God created everything but the story of Genesis is more about God reforming what was already created before that's why it only took 6 days. So I believe in the Bible but I also believe there was more going on than what's in the Bible. In the beginning God created everything and then something happened to cause the earth to be without form and void with waters already there over the earth. Very interesting post.
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