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One of the difficulties of translation across cultures, generations, and ancient languages is the necessity to find appropriate analogues to those things that could only be expressed in one language but not the other. Jesus was promised to us in prophesy and He redeemed that promise at the expense (price) of great suffering and crucifixion by our barbarian ancestors . . . to show us God's love unambiguously. It has nothing to do with payment of blood to God for disobedience about a fruit or any of the other myriad things that have been attributed to it.
Please tell us HOW and WHY this blood sacrifice supposedly achieved what you say it did? Do not tell us that God's ways are mysterious or any other nonsense. HOW and WHY would God REQUIRE this gruesome death to achieve what you claim?
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Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace
What are the objectives and effects of the death of christ ? -
Another accomplishment of the Death of Christ, it ensured the Spiritual cleansing and sanctification of all those He died for. The church.
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Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace
more on the accomplishments ! -
Jesus blood shed was in order to sanctifiy the people, those people he shed His blood for heb 13: 12Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
All this by the blood of Christ.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
I repeat . . . "Please tell us HOW and WHY this blood sacrifice supposedly achieved what you say it did? Do not tell us that God's ways are mysterious or any other nonsense. HOW and WHY would God REQUIRE this gruesome death to achieve what you claim?"
You can keep ignoring and avoiding the questions, savedbysovereigngrace . . . but they will not go away.
You can keep ignoring and avoiding the questions, savedbysovereigngrace . . . but they will not go away.
I am telling you the accomplishments of Christ. I have given you scriptures to be evidence of what I am saying to be True..Seek your answers from me in what I am witnessing about, Christ..
If you wanna know why God did something a certain way, then ask God. My duty is to witness what He has done as it is revealed in scripture ! You will have your chance to ask God why He did what He did in the day of Judgment.
I am telling you the accomplishments of Christ. I have given you scriptures to be evidence of what I am saying to be True..Seek your answers from me in what I am witnessing about, Christ..
If you wanna know why God did something a certain way, then ask God. My duty is to witness what He has done as it is revealed in scripture ! You will have your chance to ask God why He did what He did in the day of Judgment.
If believing in Jesus, His death and His blood save you from sin, why are you not perfect?
Off topic, this is about Jesus Christ and His accomplishments not about me..
I do believe that is what you are inplying when you also state that is what He did for the At-onement. The At-onement accomplished our reconnection to God by the life of Jesus and not His blood or sacrifice. A belief in those things do nothing so I was just asking since you do believe in those things. If they are true, why are you not perfect. Just trying to understand from your point of view.
The accomplishments of Jesus aren't all in the bible. There are many souls who can attest to what His teachings have done for them after they stopped believing in His sacrifice and blood redemption.
You can keep ignoring and avoiding the questions, savedbysovereigngrace . . . but they will not go away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace
I am telling you the accomplishments of Christ. I have given you scriptures to be evidence of what I am saying to be True..Seek your answers from me in what I am witnessing about, Christ..
If you wanna know why God did something a certain way, then ask God. My duty is to witness what He has done as it is revealed in scripture ! You will have your chance to ask God why He did what He did in the day of Judgment.
When someone presents themselves as the defender of a point of view ( elect) . . . they have an obligation to explain how they came to be part of what they claim to be true (the elect) . . . and why anyone else should believe that point of view is reasonable and true. You do neither. Spouting platitudes and pretending you have presented the truth without establishing how you know it is the truth is not helpful . . . it is just arrogant.
When someone presents themselves as the defender of a point of view ( elect) . . . they have an obligation to explain how they came to be part of what they claim to be true (the elect)
This is not about me, but about Jesus Christ, thats what my obligation is, to Preach Christ..I am defending the Gospel not me.. 2 Cor 4:
For we preachnotourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord
15And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
Paul here in this context gives us another purpose and accomplishment of Christ death for sinners.
He died for all [ the called or chosen or church] that [in order that] they which live [ spiritually] should henceforth [ no longer, no more] live unto themselves, but [ nevertheless , rather] unto Him which died for them, and rose again.
So the very death of christ, produces in them He died for, a life of self sacrifice, and living unto Him, the crucified life.
This is why paul boasted in the power of the cross in his own life writing gal 6:
14But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ,by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
The cross effects each life of those Christ died for to one degree or another, but it produces results, it bears fruit. jn 12:
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
This is not about me, but Christ, His work His Perfect...
So in other words, Jesus didn't accomplish anything. Gotchya!
In my own beliefs, His accmplishment was that He reconnected us to God in which was lost with our first parents. Without Jesus' Divinity, we would still be disconnected. The At-Onement was the rebestowal of Divine love, in which is the narrow gate into Heaven.
BTW, Jesus doesn't not need defending and His messge doesn't need to be "preached". Live a life of Love, tolerance, kindness, mercy, compassion and all that is Truth, Beauty and Goodness and your guidance will last longer than any preaching.
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