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You indicated they were included in the all in Adam, of which all were said to be condemned. Or perhaps I didn't understand this statement of yours here:
All the things you've listed above are, in-and-of-themselves good, and should be done. And, quite frankly, the things you've posted, you've actually not kept whole heartedly, Verna.
Pro 20:9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?
Ecc 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
I'm not arguing against love for God, nor arguing against keeping whatever commandments Christ has commanded. However, as scripture tells us, if you are "working" within the law as such, (of which you cannot fulfill perfectly) Christ is of no real benefit to you.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
What Paul is telling us in Rom 4:5, is that we who are unable to keep the law (and no one ever has kept the law or loved God the way they should, except Christ), yet we who believe in Christ who justifies the ungodly, are through faith imputed with His righteousness. And it is that righteousness that we need, Verna. Not our own righteousness, but His.
Let me ask you Verna. Are you imputed with Christ's righteousness?
Verna is not saying that one is justified by works but rather that works should follow the empowerment of the Holy Spirit by faith in Christ. It is written, "The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey." Your works will prove if you have been converted or not. Jesus said that "By their fruit you shall know them" and because of this in Revelation 20:13 "And they were judged, each one according to his work." because "faith without works is dead." It does not matter if one has one talent or ten talents in Christ but that you are faithful with what you have and are doing according to the talent/talents given you.. That will be the work that you will be judged by. Wither you work in the field one hour, half a day or a full day as the parable of Jesus puts it, all will be payed the same at the end of the day [judgment seat of Christ] but be sure, you must be in the field working as a good steward of the Lord when that Day comes. She has not said that works save her but that works will prove your Love. To repent means to know what God expects of you and then to receive His power to do it. Those who have come to Him "have been perfected forever" which means they have been given a heart that is moving forward in Christ even though we all fall short in perfectly doing all that we should because we are often times blind to our faults which are not deliberate and which can only be overcome through the maturity that comes through time. Daily we ought to pray forgive us our sins and to receive more power and the Glory [His righteousness] to move forward. Hence no man is perfect in all that he does but hopes in His mercy daily to get back up and to move forward. It is one thing to have hidden faults and quite another to deliberately sin. She herself says that she does the best that she can with the light given her. She herself knows like Saint Paul that she is not perfect but like Paul she trust in the light that grows brighter and brighter until that Day. I find it appalling that you all seem to just to want to argue, when by now you ought to know that that she is clearly speaking the Truth on this matter. It is written" Be careful that you do not bite and devourer one another." and that before the world! The name of Christ is enough evil spoken of because of all this hen pecking. May God lay shame on you and others for doing this to one another.
May God lay shame on you and others for doing this to one another.
I love Verna, and I hope she knows that I would never think any ill will or malice towards her. If not, Verna I sincerely apologize to you if I've offended, as said here.
Though we differ on doctrinal issues, she is my sister in Christ, and I know that.
It is absolutely true that works do not gain us any portion of the gift of our salvation...but good works are absolutely required of those who have recieved this precious gift by faith in Jesus Christ, through the Holy Spirit and the power thereof!...
How some people can so blatantly contradict themselves in so few words and believe themselves to be telling the truth even though they are obviously saying different things in the same breath that cannot possibly be true at the same time never ceases to amaze me ...
So works do not gain us salvation but you cannot be saved without works ... ?
Okay ... Next?
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