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"Thou shalt not murder".
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If you cite a scripture and the hold it up in the context of the chapter or the NT as a whole then it is not Cherry Picking per se. This is a principle of literary scholarship.
Unless it's clearly wrong, stupid, prejudicial, or discriminatory.
well, I couldn't find my articles I saved on this subject. They are somewhere, I just don't know where. It had to do with the corinithian churches being chaotic and unruly and about the men and women being separated in the church, and the women calling out to their husbands and disrupting. And also about the pagan women who were "unconverted" and were shouting things, etc.
Anyway...I think sometimes people are too lazy and go along with anything. "If the bible says it, I believe it!" or what have you.
Yeah, the bible may "say it".... but in what context? Who is speaking? Who are they speaking to? What is the situation? Is this fitting into the framework of love and "love your neighbor"?? Is this fitting into Jesus' teachings? Is this an instance of us being shown the "WRONG way" to go about things/view things as a contrast to the CORRECT way? As in:
Jesus - "You have heard it said... (you have heard the WRONG view), BUT I SAY (Now I am giving you the correct view)"
The phrase "The bible says it, so I believe it" is completely and totally nonsensical.
Here is something that makes sense and goes along with "God is LOVE" and "Love your neighbor as yourself" - “There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” — Galatians 3:28
When people judge theirselves and others based on what they see on the outside, that is where they have problems. If a woman wants to believe she is inferior to men, that is her problem. If she wants to just take the easy way and just "submit" without question, she is not doing herself or the rest of mankind any favors. By her silence, she is agreeing that she is INFERIOR. That women are inferior. And the attitudes and actions towards women, suffer. It seeps into the subconscious... "Well it's ok to do this to women because they are inferior". And this attitude gets passed onto the younger generations. The cycle of oppression must end. God sees us as ONE. It is time we all see each other in like manner. Because it is the truth. The dust goes back to dust...why judge each other on this temporary fleshy dust? We are far MORE than our bodies. See what is WITHIN a person.
"The bible says it, I believe it" without question, without taking things apart and trying to understand, without holding it against the template of love to see if it lines up.... is NOT a "righteous" way to be. It is an ignorant and lazy way.
I think you've been hanging out on those atheist sites for too long. You act as if the Bible is one book. It is not.
I'm well aware of what the Bible is old chap. I was probably reading it before you were even born.
Quote:
Jeremiah 31, says in part: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt,
.....Ah right!! So when your god said that his laws were to last forever...he didn't really mean it. Got it!
"Thou shalt not murder".
****************
If you cite a scripture and the hold it up in the context of the chapter or the NT as a whole then it is not Cherry Picking per se. This is a principle of literary scholarship.
Actually, it says "Thou Shalt Not Kill", and it comes right before God commands the Israelites to wipe out whole tribes of people, including children.
Got a question along the same lines. How does one convert a cow into food? Or a deer for that matter? What's the first thing you do? Hint: the word starts with a *K*.
Deuteronomy 11:1 Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.
Deuteronomy 11:26-28 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God.
1 Chronicles 16:15Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations ... an everlasting covenant.
Psalm 119:151-2Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.
Psalm 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
Even your own Jesus said that the OT laws are not abolished....
Matthew 5:18-19Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. So you are still under the OT laws Katie. Sorry about that.
PS. If you have a problem with the words "ALWAYS" and "FOREVER", I'll be happy to help.
I have no problem at all with the words.
I do see a couple of BIG problems with what you wrote, however.
You said, "Even your own Jesus said that the OT laws are not abolished." Isn't He your Jesus too? Perhaps you are not a christian? If that be the case, then I can understand why you wrote what you did.
Jesus did not say that the Old Testament laws are not abolished. He said, "till all be fulfilled." There is a big difference there. I can go into more detail about this passage in particular if you'd like, but I don't think it's necessary if you read the many scriptures in the New Testament that tell us the Mosaic Law was nailed to the cross.
The Old Testament was done away in Christ, superceded by the New Testament (that of Jesus). The old law was only designed by God, to last "till the seed should come" and "the seed was Christ" The Old Testament was removed so that the New Testament could become effective. And it is clearly stated by the inspired apostle Paul, regarding the law of Moses, that Christ has, "Blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and He hath taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross" (Col. 2:14).
Here are scriptures to back up what I said in the previous paragraph: Galatians 3:16,19, Romans 7:1-7, 2 Corinthians 3:1-18, Ephesians 2:12-16, Hebrews 7:12, 8:8-13, 9:12-17, 10:9-10
The Mosaic Law was for the Jews, and it was never meant for the Gentiles, not then, not now.
Your interpretation has the early Christian church and the apostles violating Matthew 5:17-19 by telling gentile Christians that circumcision and keeping the Law of Moses was not necessary. The book of Galatians would also have been in error on this point. And the book of Hebrews would have been in extraordinary violation of Jesus’ words, too, since it states that the entire sacrificial system, the temple worship and Levitical priesthood had been annulled. So I guess I'm in pretty good company here.
So did Jesus mean Christians had to keep all the regulations of the Law of Moses? If that were the case, then they would have to keep every single law mentioned in Genesis through Deuteronomy — and the rest of the Old Testament. The Jews calculated that there were 613 laws in their Holy Scriptures. No wonder the apostle Paul said that thinking in these terms was wrongheaded (Galatians 3:10).
To pick a few examples of this line of reasoning, Christian men would have to be physically circumcised. All Christians would have to offer sacrifices. Men, at least, would have to travel to Jerusalem to keep the annual festivals. Christians would have to keep the various purification rituals. One of these rituals specified that individuals who came in contact with dead bodies would be "unclean" for seven days. They would have to ceremonially wash themselves on the third and seventh day (Numbers 19:11-13). If any person failed to do this, he or she would be "cut off from Israel" (verse 13). There are many dozens of such laws in the Law of Moses that would have to be followed.
Obviously, when we see the implications, we have to conclude that Jesus could not have been telling Christians to keep all the old covenant Law.
Nonetheless, Christians are to respect the Old Testament as the Holy Scriptures of God. They are profitable, when used wisely, for "teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness," and can make one "wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus" (2 Timothy 3:15-16). But no one should place faith in the Law itself, for while the Law came through Moses, grace and truth have come through Jesus. Under grace, Christians are not required to keep the law of Moses.
I really hope and pray you have an honest heart and will at least read for yourself what the scriptures say that I posted, but I'm afraid that like so many others on the forum that you have already hardened your heart and closed your mind.
How any christian can believe this garbage is some some of perverse and random bad robot infiltrating any sense of true charity and wonder. This is what Jesus went into the desert for to separate the truth from this type of simple bs.
You believe in Jesus, but not the inspired words of the apostle Paul? You call what Paul says bs? WOW!
34 let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law. 35 And if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home: for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church.
11 Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection.
12 But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve;
14 and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression:
15 but she shall be saved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety.
Since the quotes are directed to Men, I would like to hear stories of how Men today deal with these issues. How do we stop Women from talking in Church? How do we keep the woman "in quietness" and remind them that "Adam was first formed, then Eve."
You do realize that Jesus had women apostles? Mary Magdelane was one of them. So I guess women can speak up in church. Would you like to know how Jesus did things or are you going to pretend that you know it all and rely on a fallible book?
We are all EQUAL. None below or above another. EQUAL.
Man said women are inferior, not God. Just because it's written in a book, doesn't make it true.
well, I couldn't find my articles I saved on this subject. They are somewhere, I just don't know where. It had to do with the corinithian churches being chaotic and unruly and about the men and women being separated in the church, and the women calling out to their husbands and disrupting. And also about the pagan women who were "unconverted" and were shouting things, etc.
Anyway...I think sometimes people are too lazy and go along with anything. "If the bible says it, I believe it!" or what have you.
Yeah, the bible may "say it".... but in what context? Who is speaking? Who are they speaking to? What is the situation? Is this fitting into the framework of love and "love your neighbor"?? Is this fitting into Jesus' teachings? Is this an instance of us being shown the "WRONG way" to go about things/view things as a contrast to the CORRECT way? As in:
Jesus - "You have heard it said... (you have heard the WRONG view), BUT I SAY (Now I am giving you the correct view)"
The phrase "The bible says it, so I believe it" is completely and totally nonsensical.
Here is something that makes sense and goes along with "God is LOVE" and "Love your neighbor as yourself" - “There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” — Galatians 3:28
When people judge theirselves and others based on what they see on the outside, that is where they have problems. If a woman wants to believe she is inferior to men, that is her problem. If she wants to just take the easy way and just "submit" without question, she is not doing herself or the rest of mankind any favors. By her silence, she is agreeing that she is INFERIOR. That women are inferior. And the attitudes and actions towards women, suffer. It seeps into the subconscious... "Well it's ok to do this to women because they are inferior". And this attitude gets passed onto the younger generations. The cycle of oppression must end. God sees us as ONE. It is time we all see each other in like manner. Because it is the truth. The dust goes back to dust...why judge each other on this temporary fleshy dust? We are far MORE than our bodies. See what is WITHIN a person.
"The bible says it, I believe it" without question, without taking things apart and trying to understand, without holding it against the template of love to see if it lines up.... is NOT a "righteous" way to be. It is an ignorant and lazy way.
peace,
sparrow
Why were the patriarchal mindset so obsessed with muzzling the woman's mouth...were they in mortal fear of something profound???
Genesis 3:15 I will put enmity between thee and the WOMAN, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shall bruise his heel.
Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and the prudent, and hast revealed them unto BABES...
John 4:10 "The Offer of the Water of Life to the Samaritan WOMAN"
Revelation 21:7 And the Spirit and the BRIDE say, COME....let him that heareth, say, COME...and let him who is athirst, DRINK.....
Food for abstract womanly thoughts...
Last edited by ans57; 05-20-2011 at 06:36 PM..
Reason: phrasing...
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