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I once met one of the founders a Christian group that gives help services to anyone with HIV and he has AIDS himself and lived the gay lifestyle for most of his life in the closet. As a kid, had a few people suggest that he might be gay just because he was different and he eventually believed it. He also believed everything his very conservative Church said about homosexuality and eventually he finally came out with it. With their help, he did finally leave the lifestyle and now has a very good looking wife and several HIV free children (through an amazing process called sperm washing btw).
...And yet inspite of potentially being tricked into the lifestyle as a kid and having a wife that he loves and is attrached to, he still considers himself 75% gay as far has who he is still attracted to. His views on homosexual attraction and how "born in" it is seemed very uncertain as well and even seemed to de-emphasize homosexuality in the bible in comparison to other sins, mostly based on how much it is talked about. However, He still seems predominantly conservative in his beliefs on the issue.
Make of that story what you will, but I have a feeling there are former or current Christian gay people out there who are a lot "gayer" than this guy ever was. I wonder how many of them have been through programs like Exodus to no avail and cried themselves to sleep praying for God to take away their attractions. I haven't walked in their shoes and I don't think I could tell them they just didn't have faith and keep a straight face while I did it.
I wonder how many of them have been through programs like Exodus to no avail and cried themselves to sleep praying for God to take away their attractions. I haven't walked in their shoes and I don't think I could tell them they just didn't have faith and keep a straight face while I did it.
A 10-step program won't do it, for it takes a blood-bought born again experience to bring forth a new creature in Christ Jesus. The reason so many fail in such programs is because there has not been a spiritual rebirth. What's more, the attractions may not entirely retreat, but a new creature in Christ has the power to put them under subjection.
Fiyero, I'm not saying that it will happen with everyone but you know what, with God, nothing is impossible. How much did these others really want change in their lives...we don't know that. Unless a person is willing to surrender all to God, chances are very slim that things are going to change. And with today's mentality, people simply don't want to surrender everything to what the world considers a myth or some fantasy. Only with a true faith that God can change things will circumstances change.
Amen!
Jesus said to the man with an infirmity for 38 years, "Wilt thou be made whole?"
Also, when Jesus was about to raise Lazarus from the dead, He told the onlookers to "take ye away the stone" from the grave. Now, Jesus could have spoken to the stone, and it would have moved. But, Jesus wants us to help Him make a miracle, so there's some lifting for us to do!
A 10-step program won't do it, for it takes a blood-bought born again experience to bring forth a new creature in Christ Jesus. The reason so many fail in such programs is because there has not been a spiritual rebirth. What's more, the attractions may not entirely retreat, but a new creature in Christ has the power to put them under subjection.
Indeed, 10 step programs never cured any heterosexual of their attractions.
That God can miraculously change someone from gay or straight is certainly true. God can turn me into a six-foot tall walking person. I don't think this means God inevitably will do these things or even that he should.
Homosexuality is clearly less necessary than heterosexuality. The species would die off without heterosexuality, but there's no clear reason to think the species would survive any differently without homosexuality. Yet things like autism, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, homosexuality, etc still occur. God does not eliminate them.
I think there might be some reason people have same-sex desires. I'm not entirely sure why that is. The obvious answer, I suppose, is "to have same-sex relationships" (sex, romance, etc) but the most obvious answer is not always the right answer. I think going by Christian tradition and the non-revisionist readings of the Bible it's something else.
I've taken it to be celibate life of service, but getting past the wrongheaded responses I got from that (It's automatically lonely, you must be unhappy no matter how much you say otherwise, etc) there is the thornier issue I've been asked elsewhere of "Why would all people with same-sex attraction have to be the same?" That some heterosexuals live a life of chaste service and do just fine, but most are meant for something else. Or even alternate between periods of chaste life and periods of married life. So it should be the same for gays. These questioners accept some gays might indeed be better off living like monks or at least like kindly celibate bachelors or spinsters, but don't think it makes sense they all would. They feel they really shouldn't be that different than straight people.
I'm not sure I have the best answers for that offhand. I guess my main thing is just being gay is different. Having same-sex attractions at all. I'm different in numerous. Sometimes things are not the same even if our ideas of equality demand they should be the same. That's life. It's not the best answer though, I'd grant.
No man is good enough to influence a woman without her consent to the proposal. And there is a huge difference between those things
that are consentual, when comparing them to the things that are forced upon you. For those who desire to compare milk with meat.
I was going to say; Apples with Oranges, but knowing the fundamental mentality on this forum? They would have just called them "fruit."
Okay, I'm just gonna throw in my two cents here: The ‘bible’ condemns ‘homosexuality’ without distinguishing between different models of “homosexual activity”, (e.g. pederasty).
The ‘bible’ does not recognize different kinds of ‘homosexuality’. From my reading, thinking, it seems that the ‘biblical’ emphasis is really on the wrongness of “homosexual lust”. It seems like the text of Rom. 1 is mainly concerned with attitudes of the mind. People have “homosexual lust” in their minds, and ‘god’ confirms this by giving them a “homosexual mindset” (See Rom. 1:28). In my opinion this shows that it is not enough to simply refrain from “homosexual activity”. The “homosexual mindset” is in itself ‘sinful’.
So you just completely ignore the previous verses which put it all in the context of the idolatrous worshipping of pagan gods?
That's the danger with cherry-picking verses from the Bible out of context.
Fiyero, I'm not saying that it will happen with everyone but you know what, with God, nothing is impossible. How much did these others really want change in their lives...we don't know that. Unless a person is willing to surrender all to God, chances are very slim that things are going to change. And with today's mentality, people simply don't want to surrender everything to what the world considers a myth or some fantasy. Only with a true faith that God can change things will circumstances change.
I wonder if you would say that to an amputee. And if not, why not?
Fiyero, I'm not saying that it will happen with everyone but you know what, with God, nothing is impossible. How much did these others really want change in their lives...we don't know that. Unless a person is willing to surrender all to God, chances are very slim that things are going to change. And with today's mentality, people simply don't want to surrender everything to what the world considers a myth or some fantasy. Only with a true faith that God can change things will circumstances change.
True. Anyone who acknowledges the Word of God as true, in the areas which pertain to, 'arsenokoitai' (homosexuals), and subsequently seeks to escape the deception of homosexual orientation, should not be eager for instant deliverance/healing, which while it may sometimes occur, is not the norm. Homosexuality has both spiritual, and mental, components, both of which must be addressed progressively with the help of a competent and insightful foundation of support. Too often, one sided approaches have limited the level of freedom some could achieve, sometimes even causing them to foolishly doubt the very love that God has for them, due to the lack of knowledge regarding the dual nature of the condition.
Because it has been so unjustifiably engrained into our society that homosexuality is a normal variation of sexual orientation, and because this myth has been so widely supported on so many levels, over time, the myth easily becomes intertwined with an individual's identity. Real freedom may take months, or years, to achieve. But, the sincere confession of faith is predicated by an individuals motivation to continue.
How many times must a person, in need of anything at all, be prayed for?? How many hours of counseling must a person undergo before lasting results are seen?? The answer, I believe is, as long as it takes. There is never a point when a believer simply concedes that the path of Christianity is too difficult. Roughly 65% of men, and a percentage of women, (for example), are dealing with some form of pornography addiction, and within that percentage, a significant number is dealing with pedophiliac compulsivity, or obsessions. Each one must measure the level of their own sincerity, concering their own spiritual and mental health. It is not simply a matter of faith, but of perseverance.
Last edited by Pennsylvanian1; 05-26-2011 at 09:22 AM..
jaymax: I would tell them that the Bible shows that miracles of that nature took place. Do they now? I have heard of cancers being healed; people walking after 23 years since an accident; sight being restored, etc. It is not of our own power, that is only through the power of God and only He decides on those issues, not us. But I also know that many people do not get healed too. I was born with physical deformities that I wish I didn't have which have caused me tremendous grief over the years but I have learned to live with it because of my faith in my Lord and Savior. I also believe that all who follow Him and are suffering with what ever physical, emotional or mental disability will likewise be restored in full. It's up to us to determine whether or not we're going to let said disability dibilitate our lives. God blesses those who determine to follow Him no matter what trials they face.
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