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The truth of the matter is that today, people will use any reasoning it takes to explain away what the Bible has proclaimed throughout the centuries in order to justify their "worldy" behavior.
You obviously don't know what the Bible has proclaimed throughout the centuries if you think gays are the answer.
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Romans 1: 21-32 is very clear on this subject as are other Scriptures:
21For although they (the people of the world) knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they(A) became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22(B) Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23and(C) exchanged the glory of(D) the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
24Therefore(E) God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to(F) the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25because they exchanged the truth about God for(G) a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator,(H) who is blessed forever! Amen.
26For this reason(I) God gave them up to(J) dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another,(K) men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God,(L) God gave them up to(M) a debased mind to do(N) what ought not to be done. 29They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Though they know(O) God’s decree that those who practice such things(P) deserve to die, they not only do them but(Q) give approval to those who practice them.
These verses aptly describe the nature of our world today and the people have only themselves to blame if they end up eternally separated from God for all eternity. As the adage goes, God hates the sin but loves the sinner.
Case in point. You don't understand the Bible.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 06-05-2011 at 08:01 AM..
Fiero: and you do? I have been studying it for the last ten years with 3 years of Bible classes. Granted, I still have the rest of my life to study but at least I have been. What is your background?
Fiero: and you do? I have been studying it for the last ten years with 3 years of Bible classes. Granted, I still have the rest of my life to study but at least I have been. What is your background?
Bible classes mean nothing since they teach you that particular denominations interpretation of the Bible. I've studied this particular issue for a long time, and it is not as clear as you would like to make it.
Did your Bible classes tell you that Romans 1 is a reference to Plato about unbridled passion, and Paul's audience was heterosexuals who had abandoned Christianity to return to their hedonistic pagan ways?
Read this article from a Seminary regarding the problems with condemning gays with Romans 1.
Exactly....it's an interpretation and everything is subject to that. Homosexuality may be a sin but it's no worse than any other sin and it gets really old seeing these threads about it and the judgmentalism that accompany them.
I believe that the issue never was, that people should not have a choice as to how they use their bodies, or, that behavior should be dictated. Among Christians, (not the liberal off-shoots, straining the definitions of divine and natural love), homosexuality is considered sin, but, as you've aptly put it, it is no worse in its definition as a moral or scriptural infraction, than any other. This makes the debate, using the bible as a reference, somewhat pointless, (in my opinion), primarily because spreading the 'good news', has little to do with identifying the sins of others, which logically results in strife, which is also sin.
In the many cases of individuals who have engaged in homosexuality, for whatever reason, who have subsequently repented of their sin, there is no need for debate, believing that it is the Spirit of God who leads them to repentance.
This reasoning, however, does not completely eliminate the value of discussion, provided it can be conducted with a degree of civility, so that science and psychology are never actually able to introduce theory as fact, thereby deceiving society, which in the cases of darwinism, and homosexuality, this has occurred. Discussions surrounding the existence of the spirit, the soul, the holy trinity, and a literal, eternal kingdom, can only be fully known by those whose lives have been touched by the one who came to witness of these things, Jesus Christ, and who gives better understanding of spiritual matters through the Holy Spirit.
Unbelief has never enlightened a person, nor has it ever contributed to their salvation, but it has frequently given place to philosophical reasoning, and the development of religions more suitable to the chosen lifestyles of those who reject the authority of scripture. There is great cause, especially in this time, to draw a line in the sand between truth, and, the messages of theory and philosophy, in order to combat the deluge of false assumptions which easily persuade the uninformed and unrepentant. It is true, sin is not categorized, but sexual sins which reach beyond the boundaries of private consentual behavior, into areas such as, governing policies, children's education, and traditional values, understandably give way to societal conflict.
John the Baptist, openly stated that Herod was an adulterer for lying with his brother's wife, which gave rise to a very small conspiracy to silence him. He was beheaded shortly afterward. Like John, the Christian exposes darkness without condemning those who are yet in darkness, realizing that the battle is not against flesh and blood. Though John's was the first voice to cry out in the wilderness, it certainly wasn't the last. Philosophies, off-shoots of Christianity, and scientific theory, which oppose scripture, will never effectively silence the Christian population of the world from speaking truth, and I applaud those who bravely and effectively expose the homosexual deception/agenda, that has overtaken this nation.
Last edited by Pennsylvanian1; 06-04-2011 at 02:44 PM..
Bible classes mean nothing since they teach you that particular denominations interpretation of the Bible. I've studied this particular issue for a long time, and it is not as clear as you would like to make it.
Did your Bible classes tell you that Romans 1 is a reference to Plato about unbridled passion, and Paul's audience was heterosexuals who had abandoned Christianity to return to their hedonistic pagan ways?
Read this article from a Seminary regarding the problems with condemning gays with Romans 1.
The Bible was not written in English, nor in the 20th or 21st Century. Stop applying modern understanding to ancient cultures.
I don't whether to find your line of thought creditable or (since you like to compare homosexual behavior to animals) rabid.
Make up your mind will you.. what's so different from a sem and a Bible class?
"Bible classes mean nothing since they teach you that particular denominations interpretation of the Bible."
I have news for you .......sem's are no different, they teach you that particular denominations interpretation of the Bible.
The Lutheran sems of the MCLS, WELS and ELS do not have any trouble with Romans 1.
Homosexuality is a sin, a matter of choice, unnatural, and those who believe they can practice it and make it to heaven are either self -decieved or be given over to it by God because of their evil hearts and will not inhert heaven.
I've researched all this garbage before and found the same things you have. Nothing but propaganda to spread ignorance and hate. I mean really, anal cancer? Never met or heard of a single person who got it. And if we weren't designed for anal sex, why does the male body have all those sexual nerves that end in the prostate? Just another temptation from Satan? lol!
sigh--those nerves are there to stimulate peristalsis(pooping)--the sexual stimulation is coming from your mind
The genetic/non-genetic basis of same sex attractions is not established science. But it shouldn't matter. The bulk of human perceptions are learned and they can become gestalt (fixed and unalterable) . . . like the ability to read. It is impossible for any of you who read English to look at this page and NOT understand the words formed by the letters . . . SEX . . . or any other words. Try to CHOOSE NOT to see the words on this page as words and CHOOSE NOT to understand the meaning and the associations evoked by the word SEX. That is essentially what you are asking homosexuals to do with their perceptions (for whatever reason they exist . . . genetic or otherwise). Give it a rest!
and that is what homosexuals are asking opposing views to do(change their perceptions-----should not the give it a rest apply to both sides????
sigh--those nerves are there to stimulate peristalsis(pooping)--the sexual stimulation is coming from your mind
Somebody needs to learn an anatomy lesson. There are tons of nerve endings in the anus and rectum that are stimulated sexually. The prostate is known as the Male G-spot, because it responds the same way as the female G-spot during sexual arousal.
The nerves around the prostate have absolutely nothing to do with pooping.
It is, but one based on evidence, not merely because I think it's icky.
It's not that I think "it's icky" or at least any ickier than all sex which involves a certain risk of unhygienic actions. Heck sake I'm attracted to men.
If you must insist other views are beneath yours I'm going to continue focusing on you as the more problematic one.
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Originally Posted by Fiyero
Infertile couples are also always sterile. Where is the outcry to deem them sinful?
There are plenty of cases of couples believed to be infertile having kids and such unions are specifically blessed by the Bible and tradition.
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Originally Posted by Fiyero
Neither is the computer. What's your point?
This is a flippant non-sequitir, it's not remotely a response to what you quoted from me. Even if they had no concept of "homosexuals" they did know of homosexual actions. There's been nothing shown indicating early Christians accepted it.
Computers didn't exist then. Although they seemed to have some concern about math-obsessives by the time of Anthemius of Tralles, which is granted after Constantine, Christians did have mathematicians. So they likely accepted math tools, as a computer was a math tool at one time, making this weird non-sequitir even less relevant.
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Originally Posted by Fiyero
Not sure where you got this from the Bible.
On John the Baptist's parents? Gospel of Luke 1:7 and 1:18.
"And they had no son, for that Elizabeth was barren: and they both were well advanced in years."
"And Zachary said to the angel: Whereby shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife is advanced in years"
It seems like you said you weren't Christian, in which case it figures you don't know that, but you have been discussing the Bible. I can also find verses in the Old Testament specifically saying a man/woman marriage of sterile people is acceptable, although I think they're not in the Protestant Bible.
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Originally Posted by Fiyero
Conservative opinion of gays is absolutely irrelevant in the United States. Their beliefs do not dictate law.
I was not claiming they should dictate laws or should be relevant to the US government. I don't favor any laws to restrict homosexuals from any stated constitutional right.
However the US is also a society, not just a legal system, with people and cultures. As such of course the opinions of its people are relevant to its society and how it functions. Many things that are or must be legal are not necessarily approved of by people. Nor is the state in the business of saying they must be.
Last edited by Thomas R.; 06-04-2011 at 03:24 PM..
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