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Roger was saying he does not of someone who has gone from UR to ET -- if I remember rightly Hot does not believe in ET eternal torment -- is that right HotinAZ?
Meerkat, You took the words right out of my mouth.
The devil and his angels? Is this a reference to the accusers' and their messengers? Because from what I have been reading the Christian Universalist's are not adversarial to the gospel of Christ.
The devil and his angels are the originators of the accusations.
They must have felt they were going to be UR'ed after the war they waged and lost in whatever was their original wording.
So the more empathetic among us who are unable to believe in a good god, or the ones who are overcome with depression and sadness, or the ones who have been terribly abused and neglected and can't believe in Love or God anymore, God (Love) will abandon for eternity? That's so horribly sad; sad beyond comprehension.
According to you and much of Christianity, love (God) fails most of the time, contradicting I Corinthians 13:8.
I happen to believe that love never fails. Never.
This thread is so huge that I have to go back and check to see what I missed. I so agree with you Herefornow!
There is a lot of hell in this present world, both outwardly and inwardly. Being subjected to death is the default position of everyone who comes into the world, and therefore, all are appointed to suffer in both body and mind. That is a basic fact.
The devil and his angels are the originators of the accusations.
They must have felt they were going to be UR'ed after the war they waged and lost in whatever was their original wording.
The Pinnacle of Imagination never ceases to amaze me.
"The man who thinks he knows something, does not yet know as he ought to know." (1 Corinthians 8:1-2)
The love of God that never fails, and the grace of God that can never be defeated would never shine out so brilliantly without the stark contrast of the Muslim and the Christian belief in everlasting suffering.
Millions of Muslims believe that non-Muslims will suffer forever in hell. "Being a Muslim does not keep one out of Hell but Non-Muslims (kafir), however, will be punished eternally." from THE AFTERLIFE IN ISLAM The Afterlife in Islam - ReligionFacts
Millions of Christians believe that non-Christian will suffer forever in hell.
Everyone on this forum knows that without my providing a link.
I don't know about Islam, but I am so glad that, at least within Christianity, there is an alternate way of understanding the Bible! See my post #1064
Last edited by rodgertutt; 06-30-2011 at 06:09 AM..
Reason: addition
This thread is so huge that I have to go back and check to see what I missed. I so agree with you Herefornow!
There is a lot of hell in this present world, both outwardly and inwardly. Being subjected to death is the default position of everyone who comes into the world, and therefore, all are appointed to suffer in both body and mind. That is a basic fact.
Heartsong
You're right, this thread has gotten huge!! I agree with both of you, hell is right here on earth and we all experience it every day. We don't choose to come into this world, so why would God bring us into it to suffer here and then just to suffer again eternally in the next life? That right there makes no sense at all and should be a red flag to all the staunch ETer's.
I like what Rodger said too, that Muslims also believe non-muslims are going to suffer for eternity as well as fundamental Christianity so who is right? Are all those Muslims going to convert or are we going to convert to their religion? Somebody is wrong, and it's both!! Thank God!!
And eventually no one will sin Robin, because God gets what He desires. How can you say there is no evidence of UR when it says very plainly in the scripture I quoted that God WILL have all men to be saved? It's obvious, not hidden.
Actually it says God wills that all men be saved not that all men will be saved. Again I cannot see it as you do.
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.....If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."
Jesus did not say the UR message:
“Enter through the gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to heaven, and many enter through it."
As God said:
Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.....If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."
The way is narrow ... the gate small ... few will have the seed of Abraham
How then do you square that with the scripture that says "God was IN CHRIST reconciling the WORLD to himself"??? Also, that God's salvation is not according to OUR will, but of Him who willed to save us? Why do you exclude the vast majority of Adam's race from the promise? I dare say, it is only because your faith falls short of the glory of God. It's hard to look around at the wickedness in this world and believe God will make everything new, yes - it is HARD to believe, I say!
Actually it says God wills that all men be saved not that all men will be saved. Again I cannot see it as you do.
And that is different how? You just said the same thing but somehow you view it as being different. It doesn't matter how it's worded in this case, it means the same exact thing. C'mon Robin, where'd you go?
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A foil of contrast
