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I believe in what the scriptures say.... and if it says that IN CHRIST, all shall be made alive.... then it certainly is IN CHRIST. You can't ignore that at all. All and every person who physically lives, now in these days of grace, must come to the acknowledgment of Christ if they want to go through Him, or in Him. This is what Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 15 when he says, "subjecting everything under his feet". How does Christ subject everyone under his feet? They must come through Him after all, no? How does this happen? They must go to the mediator, the Church. They must "put on the mind of Christ" so that God can be all in all. This is all within scriptural context... most of which the scriptures have been provided by all of you alone. We have to take into consideration every single word in them.
So that being said, if we all know that every person that has ever lived does not believe in our message, then they are not in Christ. This is how one comes to be in Christ, by believing in our message.
::Sigh:: This Churchianity is NOT Christianity. Christ and His Holy Spirit within our consciousness is all that matters . . . not what set of intellectual beliefs you adhere to or profess to follow. IF you follow Christ's commands to "love God and each other" in your daily lives . . . you are a "believer ON" Christ. Many more people of the earth do this than the number of professing Christians (who are usually just "easy believism" Churchians or Bibleans).
John17:20“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
1Jn5:11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life....We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
1 Tim2:5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Col 1:18And he (the Son) is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him
None of these verses say that there is an expiration point at which you can no longer be "in Christ".
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Doesn't it make sense to you that God established the body of Christ so that the world may come to know Him? In the after life, will the Church still be there? If the Bible points clearly that we must go through the body of Christ, that is the Church, then how do we get that salvation is also in the after life? And if that is not so, why then did God establish the Church if after all everyone would be saved eventually?
We don't know what exactly will happen in the afterlife.
Why do you think God's elect (his church) are called to be kings, judges, priests, and ministers? Who will they be ruling over? Who will they be preaching and ministering to?
Speaking from personal experience, it can take a lot of effort to understand Mystic. He's intellectually way beyond me, and he explains things in ways I'd never been exposed to before. I found, however, that the more time and effort I expended in making the attempt to understand him (and that honestly meant a LOT of outside studying on my part), the clearer his posts became and the more my thinking expanded. That's just been my experience. Ymmv.
I found this too.........
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It's sort of like what Jesus said to the Pharisees about washing the outside of a cup, but not the inside. Believing IN simply means mental assent to something. But not everything we give mental assent to is really accepted by us deep down. It CAN result in only the washing of the outside of the cup but no real change on the inside. Believing ON may include mental assent but, more importantly, it is something we truly accept and trust deep within... It's what transforms us from the inside out.
I think that the word faith/believe can be understated ---- it some times is used meaning just to acknowledge and other times meaning be faithful/obedient .......
I'm sorry sir. You're not seeing it. The people who will be made alive are made alive "In Christ." And this is saying that all people who come through Christ will be made alive.
The Paris analogy still works here, assuming that french is the only language that will be spoken in Paris. In Paris, all shall speak french bares the same meaning as "In Christ, all shall be made alive."
Truth is the way that you are rationalizing things do not make any sense. In fact, your sentence of "I am going to invite my friends this weekend" has nothing in similarity. However, if you were to say, "In my party, ALL will have fun," is more parallel to what we are discussing. That means that any and everyone, the actual meaning of "ALL", within its context will actually have fun. The same goes with the said scripture in reference, "In Christ, all shall be made alive." YES ALL...... but they have to go through Christ, they have to be "IN CHRIST." Is that scripture saying that ALL will come to Christ? Is it saying that ALL will come to Christ after death? No, it's simply saying that "in Christ, all will be made alive." That's why Paul says, in Galations, "if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature." What the person has to do is come to Christ before his life is over. You can't just put your own interpretation on it. Just use it as it is.
You say that This literally means: through Christ, each and every person who has ever existed will be made alive. Each and every person? How does each and every person come through Christ in the first place? When 1 Cor. 15:22 says, "in Christ, all will be made alive" when do they exactly go in Christ? When does that happen? I have an idea, although I don't think you'd agree with me.
In Cor 15 we see everyone being made alive in their own order
<<1 Corinthians 15>>
New American Standard Bible22For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, 24then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
Tell me when do you think christ's coming is -----a lot happens after after his coming.
It is rude to throw people's names around behind their backs. I do not lurk here 24/7.
Yes, I believe what John 3:16 says that if you believe in Christ, you will have everlasting life. Miraculously when you become a believer, or are 'born again', your desire to live in willful sin DIES. Yes, a believer is "dead to sin", and that means they do not desire it to live such lifestyle any more. Satan tells believers "go ahead and sin, you are already saved", but they will say "I don't want to". If you want to live in willful sin, then it is time to examine your faith, because it may well be that you were not saved after all.
The difference is that UR will give the UNBELIEVER the impression that they can continue living in sin, and still go to heaven, and that is a very dangerous teaching.
No, UR says that if you sin you will be judged --- it is just not eternal judgment in a literal lake of fire ....... unbelievers do not believe in any afterlife at all, heaven or hell.........
Yes, and I'm telling you that ALL in this world has to come to repentance in this life. He sent his son right? His son, Jesus Christ, is the head of the body, the Church, right? Why did God want it to be this way? To reconcile all things by making peace through his blood shed on the cross, that means that every one in this life has to come the mediator, Jesus Christ. And who is Jesus Christ again? The head of the body, the Church. The church is that perfect man, the mediator, between God and man... this is the true God and the eternal life. If God willed to reconcile everything to himself he wanted to do so by the body of Christ and all those who believe in Him, Jesus Christ. Everybody has to come to the knowledge of Christ in this life. Although I think we'll be here a very long time until you guys agree with me.
,, or you agree with us???
or we agree to disagree???
Not sure if you have answered this previously but you say that everyone does in this life have the chance to accept Jesus as saviour, but it is obvious that there are millions/billions that have been born into cultures that were not exposed to any missionaries and do not and have not had that chance, and you have said that of course children are exempt from all of this but that is not stated in scripture. What is stated is believe and you will be saved --- What are we saved from? sin, death, judgment.......
Thanks for everyones responses. I'm still trying to catchup on this thread but I have limited time. It seems there are a few different ideas floating around on this topic, but that is to be expected. I still have to go through a few of the answers given. I'll let you know if I have anymore questions
I think that the word faith/believe can be understated ---- it some times is used meaning just to acknowledge and other times meaning be faithful/obedient .......
The question I wrestle with is ... "understanding" what? What is it one is supposed to be understanding/believing on in order to be IN Christ? What does it mean to believe ON Christ?
I was raised with the idea that it meant believing that Jesus died as a sacrifice to "pay our sin debt". I simply canNOT believe that anymore (it doesn't fit with "God is love" who desires mercy not sacrifice, etc., etc.) Am I wrong? Possibly, possibly not. Who can say for sure? Not me. But, either way, I was assured by traditional Christianity that since I couldn't believe that, it meant I wasn't believing in/on Christ. Period. Therefore, I'm lost.
Today, something hit me as I was reading a few biblical passages about belief. The passages say "believing on/in his (Jesus') name". His name ... Emmanuel (God with us), Jesus (God saves). To me, if I am believing that God, who is Love, is within me, saving/transforming me, then I am believing on "Jesus name", even if I don't know that name, or believe anything else Christianity tells me I must believe about the person who bore that name.
Just some thoughts, and off topic, perhaps. But it at least fits with the theme of believing IN/ON.
The question I wrestle with is ... "understanding" what? What is it one is supposed to be understanding/believing on in order to be IN Christ? What does it mean to believe ON Christ?
I was raised with the idea that it meant believing that Jesus died as a sacrifice to "pay our sin debt". I simply canNOT believe that anymore (it doesn't fit with "God is love" who desires mercy not sacrifice, etc., etc.) Am I wrong? Possibly, possibly not. Who can say for sure? Not me. But, either way, I was assured by traditional Christianity that since I couldn't believe that, it meant I wasn't believing in/on Christ. Period. Therefore, I'm lost.
Today, something hit me as I was reading a few biblical passages about belief. The passages say "believing on/in his (Jesus') name". His name ... Emmanuel (God with us), Jesus (God saves). To me, if I am believing that God, who is Love, is within me, saving/transforming me, then I am believing on "Jesus name", even if I don't know that name, or believe anything else Christianity tells me I must believe about the person who bore that name.
Just some thoughts, and off topic, perhaps. But it at least fits with the theme of believing IN/ON.
I could just hug you, Pleroo . . . (agape only or my wife might object). You are really beginning to get it. Christ transformed our world from its Pre-Christ darkness by making His Light AVAILABLE within. Unfortunately . . . it has been (and still is) routinely disregarded and rejected for more "pressing" pleasures and needs.
Yes, and I'm telling you that ALL in this world has to come to repentance in this life.
You might be telling me that but I just showed you in scripture where ALL will be reconciled but because we know from the Bible that not all will be saved in this life then the saving HAS to take place in the next....get it? You're still not making any sense to me......what is it exactly that you believe about what happens to us when we die?
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He sent his son right? His son, Jesus Christ, is the head of the body, the Church, right? Why did God want it to be this way? To reconcile all things by making peace through his blood shed on the cross, that means that every one in this life has to come the mediator, Jesus Christ. And who is Jesus Christ again? The head of the body, the Church. The church is that perfect man, the mediator, between God and man... this is the true God and the eternal life.
No argument there. UR's are very clear about the fact that Jesus is the only way and that He is the only reason we are able to be reconciled to God. But it's not just in this life......not everyone from the past or even present will come to know Jesus in this life. The Bible says so!!! So you saying that all have to be reconciled in this life is impossible because we are told and we know just from personal experience that people die in their sins without knowing Christ everyday.
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If God willed to reconcile everything to himself he wanted to do so by the body of Christ and all those who believe in Him, Jesus Christ. Everybody has to come to the knowledge of Christ in this life. Although I think we'll be here a very long time until you guys agree with me.
If your looking for agreement then you're wasting your time. If you're looking for understanding you're going to have to be more open-minded and let go of whatever it is you believe for a moment to understand the very basic concept that ALL will be reconciled to God....did you even read the scriptures I quoted in the other post? NO, you know as well as I do that not everyone comes to know Christ in this life, so once again, how then does God reconcile ALL to Himself? Exactly, it happens in the next life.
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,, or you agree with us??? 
. . (agape only or my wife might object). You are really beginning to get it. Christ transformed our world from its Pre-Christ darkness by making His Light AVAILABLE within. Unfortunately . . . it has been (and still is) routinely disregarded and rejected for more "pressing" pleasures and needs.
