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It is judging righteous judgement when it rained for 40 days and nights and when Sodom was destroyed. So you think God is evil. Is that how you interpret it?
God is just and justice is even here on the earth. Even in the law of man is justice served. Are all the policemen evil or the court system evil? Or the executioners evil? And evil -calamity befalls them who rape , murder ,steal and destroy even in the law of the land.
The God in the old testament you say is like the description of satan. God looked at a very disobedient people who rejected him . It is God who created them and they rather live for satan. If God did anything that was what you think as like the character of Satan , His righteousness and justice prevails. God is a good God , slow to anger. He wished for them to turn away from sin and they did not. The God in the old testament as you say was perverted by the veil of ignorance. God made a way and I would not say that God was like satan because every word is true in the old testament as well as the new. Jesus was no different as he too was plain. If you sin greatly Jesus spoke of how Sodom was destroyed. How much great a destruction Jesus said would happen if they continue in sin.
When Jesus sent his disciples out on the limited commission, he said of those people who refused God's Word, "Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city" (Matt. 10:15; cf. Mk. 6:11; Lk. 10:12). Jesus made the same statement concerning cities which heard his teaching, saw many "mighty works" which confirmed the truth of his teaching, and still "repented not." Capernaum would be brought down from its exalted position to the suffering of the wicked in hades, just as Sodom was (Matt. 11:20-24).
This is no different than someone today suggesting that destruction will be greater than Hurricane Katrina or the Joplin tornadoes, etc. It was common to use known instances of destruction as referents. It does not make the ignorant blaming of God for them correct.
I am very uncomfortable with the impact these discussions might have on you, Taratova . . . given the level of intellectual understanding you are operating under. The general tenor of your posts have convinced me that you are operating at the level of "love of God and each other." I detect no major self-righteous condemnation, hatred, judgmentalism or unloving attitudes. You seem to be simply defending what you have been indoctrinated to believe from the "precepts and doctrines of men." For this reason, you and I have no quarrel. I have no mission to change anyone's mind . . . as long as they "love God and each other."
I know in my heart of hearts that the motives of God you have been taught are wrong and they corrupt your understanding of God's true nature. But you seem to have risen above them. I have no desire whatsoever to interfere with your loving relationship with Jesus over these differences in intellectual understanding . . . since they seem not to have affected your "love of God and each other." Peace in Christ's love,
Mystic
It is judging righteous judgement when it rained for 40 days and nights and when Sodom was destroyed. So you think God is evil. Is that how you interpret it?
Not sure who you were addressing this to, but I just want to clarify that I don't think God is evil.
Evil in itself has no moral bias. (ie. slapping a baby) Being morally evil is about intent: slapping a baby to cause it pain is morally evil.
But an evil can be used for a moral good: slapping a baby to save its life because it was choking.
Understand the difference?
God's intent is always good, and God doesn't fail to achieve His intent.
Quote:
God is just and justice is even here on the earth. Even in the law of man is justice served. Are all the policemen evil or the court system evil? Or the executioners evil? And evil -calamity befalls them who rape , murder ,steal and destroy even in the law of the land.
Again it is about intent. The executioner is not evil even though he performs an evil on the prisoner.
Evil-calamity befalls every person, not just people who rape, murder, steal, destroy.
You don't think tsunamis, earthquakes, nuclear meltdowns, etc only happen to evil people, do you? Of course not.
Sorry Mystic, I'm a bit lost as to how good and bad/positive and negative cancelling each other out equates to a transformation. A transformation to what, exactly?
This involves the vibratory nature of our reality, Pleroo. Each and every thing that exists is in a state of vibratory energy. These can be in resonance (harmonic or identical) or in dissonance with each other and the surrounding universal field (God's consciousness). God is Love . . . the main "vibe" of our reality. When a negative unloving thought or feeling arises in our consciousness . . . it is dissonant with God's "vibe." By merging it with an opposing loving thought or feeling in our consciousness . . . we counteract the dissonance and achieve some harmonic resonance with God. Without extensive (and off-topic) explication of the physics involved . . . that will have to do, Pleroo.
That's ok. (We should really be discussing this in the "did God create evil" thread!)
I see it as God is all-powerful, therefore it can only be concluded that God is indeed control of everything.
Where I agree with you is that the "barbaric savages" (lol) may indeed have misinterpreted what they were seeing and/or understanding.
ie. slapping a baby = evil without understanding slapping a baby to save its life = good
(just an analogy, perhaps not perfect)
Basically descriptions in the OT are based on limited information without knowing the whole picture. Later on when Jesus came, we were given the express image of what God was, so we could know that God is love and God commands us to love one another. Of course people still hung on to the old ideas which confused everything to this day still.
EXACTLY...I still see alot of the ignorance in the NT as well. We are not filthy rags...God called us good and we still are and always have been. Some are just so focused on the bad in people and in the world that that is ALL THEY SEE. I have a very difficult time believing that these people know God at all because this is not the God I know.
This is no different than someone today suggesting that destruction will be greater than Hurricane Katrina or the Joplin tornadoes, etc. It was common to use known instances of destruction as referents. It does not make the ignorant blaming of God for them correct.
I am very uncomfortable with the impact these discussions might have on you, Taratova . . . given the level of intellectual understanding you are operating under. The general tenor of your posts have convinced me that you are operating at the level of "love of God and each other." I detect no major self-righteous condemnation, hatred, judgmentalism or unloving attitudes. You seem to be simply defending what you have been indoctrinated to believe from the "precepts and doctrines of men." For this reason, you and I have no quarrel. I have no mission to change anyone's mind . . . as long as they "love God and each other."
I know in my heart of hearts that the motives of God you have been taught are wrong and they corrupt your understanding of God's true nature. But you seem to have risen above them. I have no desire whatsoever to interfere with your loving relationship with Jesus over these differences in intellectual understanding . . . since they seem not to have affected your "love of God and each other." Peace in Christ's love,
Mystic
If anyone has been taught the precepts or doctrines of men I believe it is your univeralism spirit.
God's word is true. He has written to us his direction of what man and God has been through for many years and God has made a way to be united with Him through Jesus Christ. Not through mediums, not through seducing spirits but through HIS WORD. To call the Holy Spirit barbaric is the unpardonable sin for in saying that ,you say men not the Holy Spirit penned the old testament, you have gone AGAINST CHRIST. If you were face to face with Christ he would tell you. You can be face to face with Christ through his word because his word lives.
Christ knows that the old testament is true. Christ often referred many statements to the old testament. He was after all the one who penned it. To deny the old testament is to deny Christ of which you say you believe in. To believe Christ and deny the old testament does not match. You have denied Christ by denying his word. Do not be fooled. Study to show yourself approved. It is written.
This involves the vibratory nature of our reality, Pleroo. Each and every thing that exists is in a state of vibratory energy. These can be in resonance (harmonic or identical) or in dissonance with each other and the surrounding universal field (God's consciousness). God is Love . . . the main "vibe" of our reality. When a negative unloving thought or feeling arises in our consciousness . . . it is dissonant with God's "vibe." By merging it with an opposing loving thought or feeling in our consciousness . . . we counteract the dissonance and achieve some harmonic resonance with God. Without extensive (and off-topic) explication of the physics involved . . . that will have to do, Pleroo.
I thought that was what you meant, but was afraid I might be missing something. As a side note, my daughter and I just finished reading a sci-fi book that sort of touched on this same idea. The plot incorporated the idea of an evil energy being absorbed by a being that then sacrificed itself to an "Eternal Fire"/creative energy source in order to transmute the evil energy into good. Lots of Christian overtones there. As did your post, it reminded me of the whole 2 Cor 5:21 idea:
God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Not sure who you were addressing this to, but I just want to clarify that I don't think God is evil.
Evil in itself has no moral bias. (ie. slapping a baby) Being morally evil is about intent: slapping a baby to cause it pain is morally evil.
But an evil can be used for a moral good: slapping a baby to save its life because it was choking.
Understand the difference?
God's intent is always good, and God doesn't fail to achieve His intent.
Again it is about intent. The executioner is not evil even though he performs an evil on the prisoner.
Evil-calamity befalls every person, not just people who rape, murder, steal, destroy.
You don't think tsunamis, earthquakes, nuclear meltdowns, etc only happen to evil people, do you? Of course not.
As the bible says, it rains on the just and the unjust , and the sun also shines on the just and unjust . So does calamity befall the just and unjust.
Huh??? I don't know what you are talking about...what lawyer???
The main fundies are trying to connect our understanding with those of Reverend111 and SoCalAngel and their "channeling" mediums . . especially the lawyer James Padgett, Christy. They know we are not connected with that movement . . . but they want to use the superstitious fear of demons and evil spirits, etc. to tar us with the same supernatural brush.
EXACTLY...I still see alot of the ignorance in the NT as well. We are not filthy rags...God called us good and we still are and always have been. Some are just so focused on the bad in people and in the world that that is ALL THEY SEE. I have a very difficult time believing that these people know God at all because this is not the God I know.
Well, in your fallen state, your righteousness is like filty rags compared to God's.. not that you are a filty rag -- but your righteousness is.
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