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Old 06-01-2011, 12:53 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 6,071,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
super:



Thats not the question ! God is Holy too. God was Love when He hated Esau Rom 9:13

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

God's Love cannot be separated from in Christ Rom 8:39

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If one has not been Chosen in Christ, God does not Love them..

That may be true, but the correct conclusion of such an interpretation in scripture will show that you yourself may be one God hates.

I can agree that such a doctrine can be an interpretation of scripture, but I question it's validity simply because few in any who teaches it is willing to understand that they could be one God hates and their denial of such a thing is irrelevant.

The fact of scripture dictates that just because you say you believe or claim that you are one of the chosen does not mean that you are. You personally will take the stance that you're one of the chosen and you come here to tell everyone else of this nature of God, when a good reality check should reveal that if God hates anyone as you say, it could be you.

Last edited by Phazelwood; 06-01-2011 at 01:12 PM..
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Old 06-01-2011, 01:43 PM
 
2,432 posts, read 2,812,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
Thats not the question ! God is Holy too. God was Love when He hated Esau Rom 9:13

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

God's Love cannot be separated from in Christ Rom 8:39

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If one has not been Chosen in Christ, God does not Love them..
You make a good point about God being Holy too... as in Wholeness... can't appreciate joy without pain etc.

Who is Christ, to you?
I mean, how do you relate to Christ... how are you chosen in Christ?

My entire life, I believed similar to how it seems you do about Jesus Christ. Then I realized Christ is not Jesus 1st or last name. Christ is what Jesus became & showed us the way to become. Christ is an ideal. I was taught that we don't pray to Jesus, but we pray to God...
Yet, a relationship is only as good as it's communication... so how can I relate to somebody I never relate or communicate with?

How can Jesus (or anyone) save us? And what are we saved from?
And I'm talking now... not in the after-life.
Jesus & other spiritual guides save us by teaching us, but the real saving is up to us... because it is our thoughts & feelings (& subsequent actions) that make us feel saved or damned. Believing & acting as if someone is going to be our scapegoat hinders our spiritual progress & is not what Jesus tried to teach.

When asked when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "the kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." - (Luke 17:20-21) It is imperative that we look within when seeking spiritual guidance through the scriptures or any other source... and use our precious gifts of intellect & intuition in discerning truth & what is best/loving.
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Old 06-01-2011, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,325 posts, read 5,452,133 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
You make a good point about God being Holy too... as in Wholeness... can't appreciate joy without pain etc.

Who is Christ, to you?
I mean, how do you relate to Christ... how are you chosen in Christ?

My entire life, I believed similar to how it seems you do about Jesus Christ. Then I realized Christ is not Jesus 1st or last name. Christ is what Jesus became & showed us the way to become. Christ is an ideal. I was taught that we don't pray to Jesus, but we pray to God...
Yet, a relationship is only as good as it's communication... so how can I relate to somebody I never relate or communicate with?

How can Jesus (or anyone) save us? And what are we saved from?
And I'm talking now... not in the after-life.
Jesus & other spiritual guides save us by teaching us, but the real saving is up to us... because it is our thoughts & feelings (& subsequent actions) that make us feel saved or damned. Believing & acting as if someone is going to be our scapegoat hinders our spiritual progress & is not what Jesus tried to teach.

When asked when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "the kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." - (Luke 17:20-21) It is imperative that we look within when seeking spiritual guidance through the scriptures or any other source... and use our precious gifts of intellect & intuition in discerning truth & what is best/loving.
Still can't rep ya. Great post!
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Old 06-01-2011, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,188 posts, read 22,162,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post

Thats not the question ! God is Holy too. God was Love when He hated Esau Rom 9:13

If one has not been Chosen in Christ, God does not Love them..
So... God was love when he hated Esau? So... God was love when he hated? Um... Yeah... That doesn't really make any sense. I know that when I am busy hating someone - I'm surely not being love. Then again, I don't think I've ever really hated someone.

But I guess it doesn't really matter - since, according to you, God doesn't love me. Then again, since I'm not sure he exists - I guess I'm not really that upset. However, if there is a God, and he does exist - I'm pretty sure he loves me. Oh well.
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Old 06-01-2011, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,488,189 times
Reputation: 812
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
You make a good point about God being Holy too... as in Wholeness... can't appreciate joy without pain etc.

Who is Christ, to you?
I mean, how do you relate to Christ... how are you chosen in Christ?

My entire life, I believed similar to how it seems you do about Jesus Christ. Then I realized Christ is not Jesus 1st or last name. Christ is what Jesus became & showed us the way to become. Christ is an ideal. I was taught that we don't pray to Jesus, but we pray to God...
Yet, a relationship is only as good as it's communication... so how can I relate to somebody I never relate or communicate with?

How can Jesus (or anyone) save us? And what are we saved from?
And I'm talking now... not in the after-life.
Jesus & other spiritual guides save us by teaching us, but the real saving is up to us... because it is our thoughts & feelings (& subsequent actions) that make us feel saved or damned. Believing & acting as if someone is going to be our scapegoat hinders our spiritual progress & is not what Jesus tried to teach.

When asked when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "the kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." - (Luke 17:20-21) It is imperative that we look within when seeking spiritual guidance through the scriptures or any other source... and use our precious gifts of intellect & intuition in discerning truth & what is best/loving.
Yep...the Rep fairy is blocking me out as well....AWESOME POST!!!!
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Old 06-01-2011, 03:23 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,522,487 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
super:

Thats not the question ! God is Holy too. God was Love when He hated Esau Rom 9:13

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

God's Love cannot be separated from in Christ Rom 8:39

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If one has not been Chosen in Christ, God does not Love them..
Concerning the word "hate" in the Hebrew. I recall a discussion on this a while back. Here it is:

//www.city-data.com/forum/chris...l#post11999920

The fact of the matter is that the word "hate" simply means to love less, or to give a preference to one over the other. God can certainly love with preference one individual and hate (no preference) the other individual, while still being kind and showing mercy to the one who is said to be hated.

Similar to what Christ said here:

Luk 14:26 `If any one doth come unto me, and doth not hate his own father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers, and sisters, and yet even his own life, he is not able to be my disciple;

And yet, Christ tells us:

Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

So much for that argument.

Esau WAS elect in Christ. We know this and it's scriptural.

Rom 4:5 and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned--to righteousness:

Rom 5:18 So, then, as through one offence to all men it is to condemnation, so also through one declaration of `Righteous' it is to all men to justification of life;

Esau is singing praises to Christ, in front of His throne right now, on the merits of Christ alone. Believe it. Believe the Gospel.
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Old 06-01-2011, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 6,065,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
Romans 9:


13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

How can it be sincerely taught that scripture teaches that God loves all men without exception, when it specifically says of Esau, God Hated ?

And I got news for you, He did not only hate Esau, but all the workers of iniquity. ps 5:


5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

And they that work iniquity shall soon hear these words Matt 7:


23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Yes, these and those in ps 5 5 are the very same !
Let me guess: You're one of God's messengers sent to tell people that God may not love them? What a ministry! Reminds me of the Westboro Baptists.
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Old 06-01-2011, 03:41 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,673,704 times
Reputation: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
And I got news for you, He did not only hate Esau, but all the workers of iniquity. ps 5:
God also "hated"
1. His annointed King David (Psalm 89:38)
2. Israel, the beloved of His soul (Jeremaiah 12:8)

God "hating" someone doesn't mean He won't save them.
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Old 06-01-2011, 04:02 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,522,487 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Let me guess: You're one of God's messengers sent to tell people that God may not love them? What a ministry! Reminds me of the Westboro Baptists.
It's religious sodomy on steroids. Don't even want to go there...
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Old 06-01-2011, 04:04 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,522,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
God also "hated"
1. His annointed King David (Psalm 89:38)
2. Israel, the beloved of His soul (Jeremaiah 12:8)

God "hating" someone doesn't mean He won't save them.
Exactly, that was the whole reason Jesus died on the cross. The Just for the unjust.

1Pe 3:18 because also Christ once for sin did suffer--righteous for unrighteous--that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit,

It's like no one believes the Gospel anymore.
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