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Old 08-18-2011, 03:09 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
Strongs merely gives how words were translated in the KJV.
That is Strongs only function.

My Greek scholars prove that the KJV is wrong.
Interesting seeing as how I studied Classical Greek and how Koine Greek is what The Classical became back then and I see no difference between that and Strong's...And the fact that Greeks know there own language better than a non-greek and it's history...
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Old 08-18-2011, 03:13 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
Listed below are fifteen translations which we will compare to the King James Bible on the verse Matthew 25:46.
Concerning the duration of kolasis (literally - corrective punishment), Matt. 25:46 says (KJV),
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal."

1. Scarlett's New Testament written in 1792 has "aeonian punishment" in place to "everlasting punishment."
"And these will go away into aeonian punishment: but the righteous into aeonian life."

2. The New Covenant by Dr. J.W. Hanson written in 1884 renders Matt. 25:46:
"And these shall go away into aeonian chastisement, and the just into aeonian life."

3. Young's Literal Translation first published in 1898 and reprinted many times since uses the following words:
"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during."
Professor Young also compiled Young's Concordance, where one can check the translation of each Hebrew or Greek word as translated in the KJV.

4. The Twentieth Century New Testament first printed in the year 1900 has:
"And these last will go away 'into aeonian punishment,' but the righteous 'into aeonian life.'"

5. The Holy Bible in Modern English by Ferrar Fenton first published in 1903 gives the rendering:
"And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life.

6. The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. Weymouth, says:
"And these shall go away into punishment of the ages, but the righteous into life of the ages."
Dr. Weymouth most frequently adopts such terms as "life of the ages," "fire of the ages;" and in Rev. 14:6, "The good news of the ages." It is a matter to regret that the editors of the most recent edition of Dr. Weymouth's version have reverted to the KJV renderings for the passages containing the Greek word aion, eon, or age.

7. The Western New Testament published in 1926 renders Matt. 25:46 as follows:
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into life eternal."
The translation, however, has a footnote on Matthew 21:19 on the word "forever" which is the same word for "eternal" which says: "Literally, for the age.”

8. Clementson's The New Testament (1938) shows,
"And these shall go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life."

9. Wilson's Emphatic Diaglott (1942 edition) translates the verse,
"And these shall go forth to the aionian cutting-off; but the righteous to aionian life."
It should be noted that the "cutting-off" refers to pruning a fruit tree to make it bear more fruit. The idea behind the word is not destructive but productive! Had Jesus wanted to emphasize a destructive end, He would have used the word "timoria."

10. The Concordant Version (1930):
"And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

11. The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed printed in 1958 says:
"And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life."

12. Joseph Bryant Rotherham, in his Emphasized Bible (1959), translates this verse,
"and these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life."

13. The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible copyrighted in 1976 has "age-abiding correction" instead of "everlasting punishment."

14. Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010) has "And so, these folks will be going off into an eonian pruning (a lopping-off which lasts for an undetermined length of time; an age-lasting correction; a pruning which has its source and character in the Age), yet the fair and just folks who are in right relationship and are in accord with the Way pointed out [go off] into eonian life (life which has it source and character in the Age; life pertaining to the Age)”.

15. Even some King James Study Bibles will show the reader in the margins or appendixes that the King's translators were incorrect in their rendering of "eternal punishment.” The great Companion Bible by Dr. Bullinger is an example of that.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

See what other Greek scholars say about it too.
Chapter Eleven
So, we don't have Eternal life...
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Old 08-18-2011, 03:31 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 2,955,883 times
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Lightbulb Strongs is not a dictionary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Interesting seeing as how I studied Classical Greek and how Koine Greek is what The Classical became back then and I see no difference between that and Strong's...And the fact that Greeks know there own language better than a non-greek and it's history...
Strongs is not a dictionary
It merely records how words were tranlated in the KJV.
My Greek scholars prove the KJV is wrong.

My Greek scholars are Louis Abbott and the many Greek scholars he quotes in chapters three and twelve of
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
An Analytical Study of Words

Also see THE SCHOLAR’S CORNER FOR THE STUDY OF BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM at
Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

Last edited by rodgertutt; 08-18-2011 at 03:56 AM..
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Old 08-18-2011, 03:47 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 2,955,883 times
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Lightbulb God’s plan for the ages of time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
So, we don't have Eternal life...
Believers have eternal life, but not because of the word aionios.

While the first fruits of election, the remnant chosen by grace out of each generation, are enjoying life eonion, the non-elect will experience kolasis eonion (age-during corrective chastisement).
Then, at the end of the ages eonian life will come to an end for the believer and eternity will continue with everyone saved.

A snippet from
GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

"Neither is it true that if the eons end, the life of believers in Christ must end. Believers do receive eonian life. But if this is all that God promised, there would be no assurance of life beyond the eons. However, at the end of the eons God abolishes death from His universe (1 Cor.15:26). This is accomplished by imparting the resurrection life of Christ to all who have not previously received it. Eonian life assures one of life up to that point. Beyond that, death is impossible. Furthermore, believers are made immortal when the Lord returns (1 Cor.15:50-57). When one has been made immortal, death is impossible.

In the Greek Scriptures endlessness is never expressed in terms of eons or of that which is eonian. The Scriptures never speak of “the endless eons of eternity.” Endlessness is expressed by the use of negatives: “not,” “no not,” “un,” “less.” For example: “Of His kingdom there shall be no end” ouk estai telos (Luke 1:33); “endless life” akatalutou (Heb.7:16); “endless genealogies” aperantois (1 Tim.1:4); “nevermore” ou me eti (Rev.18:21-23)."

Last edited by rodgertutt; 08-18-2011 at 04:25 AM..
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Old 08-18-2011, 04:04 AM
 
Location: New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
So, we don't have Eternal life...
immortality
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Old 08-18-2011, 08:46 AM
 
45,012 posts, read 29,253,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
So, we don't have Eternal life...
Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
immortality
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Lightbulb What God does with His hatred of sinners

Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
Romans 9:

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

How can it be sincerely taught that scripture teaches that God loves all men without exception, when it specifically says of Esau, God Hated ?

And I got news for you, He did not only hate Esau, but all the workers of iniquity. ps 5:

5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
God "hated" Esau so much that He greatly blessed him later on in his life (Genesis 33).

God "hates" the wicked sinners so much that He will cause them to experience kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement), so they will no longer remain wicked sinners.

Like I said before, the argument about “eternal hell” nearly always gets bogged down with the words,
“My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars,” and the result is nearly always a stalemate.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

See what other Greek scholars say about it too.
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
Chapter Eleven

If you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.

But if you think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that that is exactly what God is like.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:53 PM
 
672 posts, read 579,922 times
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What manner of Love is this ?

1 Jn 3:1

1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons [children] of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

We know or should know that God does not Love all men without exception because all men without exception are not the children of God ! Those whom God Loved in Jn 3:16 are the same ones in 1 Jn 3:1. Now God bestowing His Love on the me in 1 Jn 3:1 constitutes them children of God, cannot be based upon believing, when Jn 3:16 is not based upon believing nor is Rom 5:8

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners [unbelievers], Christ died for us.

God does love one one way we are unregenerated, then after conversion love us another way. The same ones God Loved and bestowed His Love on in 1 Jn 3:1 are the same as in Rom 5:8, and they have always [before conversion] been Children of God. This is intimated in Jn 11:52

52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Now, the Children of God are also the Children of Promise Rom 9:8

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Now Isaac was of the Children of Promise Gal 4:28

28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Now did Isaac have to be a believer to be a Child of Promise ? The answer is no. He was a Child of promise before his natural birth.

And its the same with all Children of promise, who are also Children of God !

Now to say that all men without exception are Children of God, would be to lie against the Truth which clearly designates some men children of the devil 1 Jn 3:10

10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

So scripture is quite conclusive that God Loved His Children, and all men without exception are not God's Children, Children of Promise , so God could not have Loved all men without exception !
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 2,955,883 times
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Lightbulb God’s plan for the ages of time

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME

God’s purposes are not completed in this current age, but worked out in successive ages. (Eph. 2:7) The message of God’s saving work through Christ is glorious, and it is not limited to this lifetime as the “orthodox” church would have us believe. It is not in God’s plan “to save as many as He can before this life ends” only to throw the rest of His precious creation in the dumper for all eternity. Jesus did not pray for the world, but for those whom the Father gave Him (the disciples). (John 17)

Those who are Calvinists will twist this prayer of Jesus to say that God only has intentions to save the elect, while the rest are reserved for never-ending punishment, but they make the same critical mistake that most of Christendom does in that they do not see that God’s purposes for mankind do not end with this life.
GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

Everything will be accomplished in GOD’S TIME, not ours. God’s purpose in this age is to bring a people to Himself (elect) in order to reach the non-elect in the ages to come. He is calling US in order to show forth His kindness to OTHERS in the ages to come. Once you see this truth, you will then understand why most people will never come to Christ in this age. This does not mean God has forsaken the many and given them up to suffer never-ending punishments. The mercy, love, and compassion of our God will never fail and the Good Shepherd will keep on seeking and saving until all the lost are saved.

The following link is a great exposition on what the Bible teaches about this subject.
REDEMPTION IN TWO PARTS
God's Plan Of The Ages; The Purpose Of God In This Age; Redemption In Two Parts; As In Adam - So In Christ; Every Man In His Own Order; All Things In Subjection; God All In All
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