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I will mark it. I find it fascinating. If we can give some actual meaning to this portion of scripture we may be able to see the big picture spiritually. Perhaps we can also apply those findings to other 'demons' in the bible.
I agree.interesting the pigs ran into the water,and God uses water for cleansing.spiritual and otherwise.
If any of you studied this properly, the place this took place was among the gentiles and thus not under the mosaic law. The demons cast out went off the cliff via pigs into the lake which is symbolic of the abyss aka hell.
Really it is all out there if you would research it but it really does not matter as it probably never happened.
You have to ask yourself why the other instances of demonic deliverance, pigs were not required.
The key to understanding this parable is in the pigs and the location. More than just the literary words.
Yes... I heard a story about a doctor who went to a tribe to administer medicine for a certain curable disease (which I can't recall) and they wouldn't let him because they believed they were stricken by demons from their bad behavior. The doctor left without helping them. He came back later and told them he had a cure for demon-possession... They were cured.
Did Jesus only acknowledge the demons because that was their belief? Or do demons really exist?
I recall that.the power of the psych can be so strong that it outrules common sense sometimes.
katjonjj wrote:
I will mark it. I find it fascinating. If we can give some actual meaning to this portion of scripture we may be able to see the big picture spiritually. Perhaps we can also apply those findings to other 'demons' in the bible.
Generally speaking and according to the Bible:
1. They are rebel angels
2. Are called unclean spirits
3. They acknowledge Satan as their leader
4. They morbidly fear God
5. They try to possess people
6. To mislead people
7. To worship false gods is to worship them
8. Some are assigned prominent positions over specific nations
7. They are destined for destruction.
The scripture in question supports 2, 4, 5, and 7 as generalizations to all such entities.
Quote:
2. 4, 5, and 7--- Mark 1:23-28
Immediately there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit, and he cried out,
saying, "Ha! What do we have to do with you, Jesus, you Nazarene? Have you come to destroy us? I know you who you are: the Holy One of God!
4. "James 2:19 You believe that there is a God? That's fine! Even the demons believe that and tremble with fear.
The scripture also reveals that they acknowledge Jesus as God's chosen one to destroy them as promised in Genesis 3:15
This is an offshoot of the "Filthy Rags" thread...
The topic began when I commented on Legion from Mark 5...
1They went across the lake to the region of the Gerasenes.a 2When Jesus got out of the boat, a man with an evilb spirit came from the tombs to meet him. 3This man lived in the tombs, and no one could bind him any more, not even with a chain. 4For he had often been chained hand and foot, but he tore the chains apart and broke the irons on his feet. No one was strong enough to subdue him. 5Night and day among the tombs and in the hills he would cry out and cut himself with stones.
6When he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and fell on his knees in front of him. 7He shouted at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? Swear to God that you won’t torture me!” 8For Jesus had said to him, “Come out of this man, you evil spirit!”
9Then Jesus asked him, “What is your name?”
“My name is Legion,” he replied, “for we are many.” 10And he begged Jesus again and again not to send them out of the area.
11A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside. 12The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” 13He gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned.
14Those tending the pigs ran off and reported this in the town and countryside, and the people went out to see what had happened. 15When they came to Jesus, they saw the man who had been possessed by the legion of demons, sitting there, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid. 16Those who had seen it told the people what had happened to the demon-possessed man—and told about the pigs as well. 17Then the people began to plead with Jesus to leave their region.
My position is that this man they called Legion was actually ill, not demon possessed. I stated that a naked man talking to himself today would be called insane not possessed, maybe the victim of poisoning such as with ergot or something similar.
The counter to my position was that the demons spoke and asked to be delivered into the pigs who then drowned... So why did the pigs die?
I guess we can take it from there... I still stand by my original theory that Jesus was using terminology common to the people rather than saying he was psychologically unstable. Notice in verse 15 he is said to be of sound mind as opposed to his original state of "unsound mind."
Any thoughts as to why the pigs jumped to their death?
Well I agree that Legion was a lunatic. His “demon possession” referred to his sick state of mind. I think the pigs’ jumping to their death was just a sign as well as a visual aide-mémoire for Legion that his illness and perceived personalities were being "cast out". This seems quite similar to the “scapegoat ritual” of the ancient Hebrews, in which the scapegoat wonders off into the wilderness symbolically bearing Israel’s sins. This visual sign of the animal wondering off would have reflected that their sins were being "cast out".
And the Ten Plagues on Egypt were just natural phenomena, and the Red Sea wasn't as deep as they said, or Jericho's walls fell because of sneaky covert excavations and not due to God's power, and all of God's prophets were on LSD. The same mindless rejection of everything biblical.
They were once saying that Pilate never existed. Then they found an inscription naming him specifically. They once said that Belchazar had never been ruler of Babylon as Daniel pointed out. Then an inscription was found describing Belchazar as co-ruler with Nabonidus. They scoffed when the Bible in Genesis mentioned Hittites. Then they found that the Hittites had once had an empire that Challenged Egypt.
On and on it goes and the modus operandi continues to be the same. Accuse Bible writers as being liars simply because they are Bible writers and explain everything away as simply misperceptions or efforts to deceive. Even the mention of entire cities are ridiculed and only accepted after archaeological evidence appears.
Quote:
"‘Scholars have said that there wasn’t a Pool of Siloam and that John was using a religious conceit’ to illustrate a point, said New Testament scholar James H. Charlesworth of the Princeton Theological Seminary.
‘Now, we have found the Pool of Siloam … exactly where John said it was.’ A Gospel that was thought to be ‘pure theology is now shown to be grounded in history,’ he said" (August 9).
In short, when it comes to the Bible these people consider ridicule and disbelief as the appropriate first reaction to anything it tells us. Which of course brings up the question as to why? Which of course can be answered with only in one way- fanatical anti-religious jihad.
Well I agree that Legion was a lunatic. His “demon possession” referred to his sick state of mind. I think the pigs’ jumping to their death was just a sign as well as a visual aide-mémoire for Legion that his illness and perceived personalities were being "cast out". This seems quite similar to the “scapegoat ritual” of the ancient Hebrews, in which the scapegoat wonders off into the wilderness symbolically bearing Israel’s sins. This visual sign of the animal wondering off would have reflected that their sins were being "cast out".
If that's so, WHY did the pigs throw themselves into the sea? Did they do it on their own, showing a level of understanding not normally attributed to animals, or did someone make them do it? If so, who?
What I find intriquing about this thread is just how many people are willing to consider ANY OTHER explanation than the one provided by the Bible, no matter how fanciful.
Matthew 8:28 puts is in a clearer way: the man was demon possessed.
When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
people cry and people moan
look for a dry place to call their home
try to find some place to rest their bones
while the angels and the devils try to make 'em their own
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