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Are you sure about that? Would you care to debate it? First you have to prove from scripture that you have salvation. Because this is not brought in until Christ's second coming...so if you believe that Christ has not come yet, you do not have what you are claiming to have. Hebrews is very clear. N. T. Wright said about 'Paul' makes this passing comment: "Election was closely bound up with eschatology…." New Testament eschatology being bound up and fulfilled in Christ and outworked through His first-fruit saints demands likewise the fulfillment of election. The new covenant age has no eschaton – no end of the age time; therefore there is no redemptive administrative election post Parousia in relation to the removal of Israel's sin-offense (John 1:29; 1 John 2:2), as election was for the sole purpose of fulfilling the old covenant, in bringing the promised restorative deliverance to Israel (Rom 11:26-27), and thus mankind (Rom 11:15) to fruition – something that occurred in and through the pre Parousia "this generation" firstfruits world of AD30-70. It is finished.
Last edited by sciotamicks; 06-06-2011 at 01:13 PM..
Are you sure about that? Would you care to debate it? First you have to prove from scripture that you have salvation. Because this is not brought in until Christ's second coming...so if you believe that Christ has not come yet, you do not have what you are claiming to have. Hebrews is very clear. N. T. Wright said about 'Paul' makes this passing comment: "Election was closely bound up with eschatology…." New Testament eschatology being bound up and fulfilled in Christ and outworked through His first-fruit saints demands likewise the fulfillment of election. The new covenant age has no eschaton – no end of the age time; therefore there is no redemptive administrative election post Parousia in relation to the removal of Israel's sin-offense (John 1:29; 1 John 2:2), as election was for the sole purpose of fulfilling the old covenant, in bringing the promised restorative deliverance to Israel (Rom 11:26-27), and thus mankind (Rom 11:15) to fruition – something that occurred in and through the pre Parousia "this generation" firstfruits world of AD30-70. It is finished.
Excellent point sciota... You should start another thread on this. Not preterism in full but the fact that no one is saved until the 2nd coming.
Christ said it.
Matthew 7-21-23 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness."
Moderator cut: delete. . . nowhere in that passage are the scriptures even mentioned . . . and certainly not proclaimed to be the infallible word of God to be believed as God. The Word of God is Jesus, period!! This passage is all about what people do or have done.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 06-06-2011 at 02:06 PM..
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
It means what it says that God saves ALL
Yes, absolutely.... this is not the reality... sin/hell/death..... Christ came to enlighten us and make it known who we truly are. Instead, because of our own unbelief we condemn ourselves.
It's interesting that Paul says, "especially to those who believe." He's trying to make that point... that we are already saved. All of us and it is our disbelief that condemns us.
What you are saying is False. Predestination and Election are Terms regarding all the seed of Abraham [ Believers and believers to be] who were Chosen in Christ before the foundation. Eph 1:3-7
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4According as he hath chosenus in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
The Seed of Abraham are all who belong to Christ whether jew or gentile and no matter what time in world history they live in.
Gal 3:29
29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
The directed audience is the bride, first century saints...i.e. foolish galatians...and church of Ephesus....got any more?
Still you have not proven you have salvation. Christ's second coming brings this in...if you believe that Christ hasn't come yet, YOU DO NOT HAVE SALVATION.
Excellent point sciota... You should start another thread on this. Not preterism in full but the fact that no one is saved until the 2nd coming.
Let the BIBLE GYMNASTICS begin...cause it will take some pretty heaving twisting and turning for anyone to refute that point.
Hebrews 927 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
If you truly longed for God you would long for his word for God is his Word. We know His love through His word.
You have made the feelings in yourself your god. You don't even accept the word as God so you will be stuck in your feelings and not in what Christ said. HIS WORD which lives and is the true bread of life ,peace and understanding.
How do you minister to those who are in dire trouble? Do you float around in your own self fulfillment without any burden for those who are lost? Are you concious of those who need Jesus ? Or do you say,they are all saved and me too. Oh how blissful!
Taratova, I hesitate to say this only because I don't want you to use it as a springboard to say more things that might wound her, but I truly hope that someday you will be able to see Sparrow's heart as it really is, rather than how you are portraying it here, and be blessed by it, as so many of us are here.
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This is not Christ's message to us. Christ said to seek and save that which is lost. Do you deny that we have a calling to seek and save them here ?
I'm pretty positive that Jesus did not say that ... He said that HE had come to seek and save the lost (Lk 19:10). He said the job of believers was simply to tell the good news, which Paul says is that God reconciled all people to himself and is not holding anyone's sins against them.
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