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Regarding Jesus’ phrase : "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. (Matt 5:43)
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Clear said in post #25 : “... nowhere in normative Judaism is it taught "to hate your enemies" (though it is taught to love your neighbor)
Pleroo remarked in post #27 : “I find this curious. I realize the phrase is not in the OT, but the actions governed by that belief sure are.”
I agree with you that some religious individuals within Judaism “hated their ‘enemies’” (the sentiment expressed in the psalms) just as there are religious Christians who “hate their enemies” despite Jesus’ prohibition against this practice among us all. Yadin and other Jews correctly point out that the Christians seem to create “caricatures” of ancient Judaism by using hypocritical Abuses and descriptions of it AS Judaic doctrines in the same way that some religionists/non-religionists point out Christian hypocrisies as normative examples of what christianity teaches and does.
By the way Pleroo, your post #29 where you allowed yourself to “stand corrected” (whether you were in fact right OR wrong) was a very classy, very honorable thing to do in the midst of individuals who would have simply tried to cover up a mistake by further argument. Your credibility just went up on my scale and it was a good example of what all of us should do when we make a mistake.
Clear
Last edited by Clear lens; 06-18-2011 at 01:25 PM..
I agree with you that some religious individuals within Judaism “hated their ‘enemies’” (the sentiment expressed in the psalms) just as there are religious Christians who “hate their enemies” despite Jesus’ prohibition against this practice among us all.
Very true.
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By the way Pleroo, your post #29 where you allowed yourself to “stand corrected” (whether you were in fact right OR wrong) was a very classy, very honorable thing to do in the midst of individuals who would have simply tried to cover up a mistake by further argument. Your credibility just went up on my scale and it was a good example of what all of us should do when we make a mistake.
Your integrity has never been questionable.
But I will second the motion, "you are very elegant" in style and manner.
You're wrong there:
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
If the Old Testament writers did not have access to the Holy Spirit then what is David talking about in his psalm?...
EVERYONE has access to the Spirit...because it is WITHIN US ALL...Jesus taught us THE WAY to follow in which we can access it. This is a fact that the majority of Christians are truly ignorant of and it shows in their interpretations of the scriptures and the way they live their lives.
EVERYONE has access to the Spirit...because it is WITHIN US ALL...Jesus taught us THE WAY to follow in which we can access it. This is a fact that the majority of Christians are truly ignorant of and it shows in their interpretations of the scriptures and the way they live their lives.
About "hate thine enemies" - Jesus said "you have heard it said" not "it is written"
And about Christianity, after almost 2000 years, passed down through human hands and made up of humans, perhaps it has lost some of the gLory of its message, aNd, picked up some baggage along the way... most things ppl debate, are based on Christianity which is made up of people, as opposed to what the original intent of scripture written was.. which can be traced back closer to the original intent by looking up original words used - Hebrew for OT, Greek for NT
There has been spiritual warfare behind the scenes, which is stated at the beginning of creation "...and darkness was on the face of the deep." (The fall of satan Isaiah 14:12). The first thing Satan accomplished in the garden was getting Eve to doubt the Word of God. He's still doing it today.
If the devil can get Christians to argue openly, that sends a bad testimony and witness to the observers and souls aren't saved; which is the only intent of the devil---to 'kill the spirit.' This is why there is so much contention with Christ followers, and not Buddhists, Mormons, Muslims, et al.
Too many of these discussions base their merit on the wisdom of men instead of the power of God. Are we to presume that God's power was overcome by ancient ignorance ... or that God learned through human wisdom over the ages? I think not.
I Cor 2:4-5 ... my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith would not [b]rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.
If the devil can get Christians to argue openly, that sends a bad testimony and witness to the observers and souls aren't saved; which is the only intent of the devil---to 'kill the spirit.' This is why there is so much contention with Christ followers, and not Buddhists, Mormons, Muslims, et al.
It is the "letter that killeth" . . . NOT the Spirit of the Gospel which is LOVE.
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Originally Posted by jghorton
Too many of these discussions base their merit on the wisdom of men instead of the power of God. Are we to presume that God's power was overcome by ancient ignorance ... or that God learned through human wisdom over the ages? I think not.
I Cor 2:4-5 ... my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith would not [b]rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.
Everyone seems to make this mistake because they treat the Bible as God and the letter as truth. It is the Spirit that is truth as your verse shows, jg. It is not God's power that was overcome. It was the Spirit of love that was overcome by savagery and barbarity. It is not God who has learned over the ages . . . but humans who have shed the ancient ignorance and superstitions of our ancestors cloaking the truth in savagery and barbarity. God's truth is CONTAINED in the Bible . . . but it is shrouded and cloaked in human ignorance and superstition. We who have shed that ignorance and superstition are able to find it with the help of the Comforter in the Spirit of "love of God and each other." That is sadly lacking in those who treat the Bible as God and the letter as truth . . . excusing Evil as Good by denying what God has "written in our hearts."
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