Why did Christianty not die after this prophesy? (Gospel, Epistles, testimony)
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Mark 13: 20 “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them. 21 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. 22 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time. 24 “But in those days, following that distress,
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
25 the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
28 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. 30 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Notice, Jesus is telling these disciples not about IF these things will happen, but WHEN they will happen and is also telling them that ALL of these things will take place in their generation.
So, how come Christianity did not die in 2nd century AD?
the parable of the fig tree is a dual prophecy. it has a two-fold fulfillment. in the olivet discourse Jesus talks about the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the world . that generation (the generation of Jesus - 1st century generation) was present at the destruction of Jerusalem when it took place in 70 AD. so yes, that generation did not pass indeed.. that's the point when the second temple was destroyed too and the Jews were forced into exile.. but God in many passages through the prophets promises that he will gather his children after thousands of years of exile to the land he gave them. this took place in 1948.. the second fulfillment of the olivet discourse - end of the world will see its fulfillment within this generation.. so May 14, 1948 is the starting point of the final generation and when Jesus comes back to this Earth at the battle of Armageddon, there will be ppl here on earth who were alive in 1948.. time is running out indeed.. and believe it or not, the fact that the state of Israel exists today and that it's under international condemnation is very important. the world is moving towards Armageddon, the climax will come when the whole world (at least many nations) will surrounds Israel to wipe it off the map.. this is no fantasy. almost every day a country turns against Israel and believe it or not this world is already under judgment, just take a look at the daily news and headlines.. what most skeptics and scoffers deliberately reject is the existence of Israel.. Yes, there was no point in preaching doom over the centuries, but as far as our ear, our century, our generation are concerned, Yes, doomsday is coming fast.. it's up to you whether you reject it, scoff at it, or think it over, and pray and accept it..
'iam not telling you personally, for i don't even know what your point of view is concerning this matter, just saying that it is also written that most scoffers and skeptics will rise in the final gen.. wolf has been cried so many times that those living in the end-times will not pay heed to warnings any more.. and this is something we can see every single day.. or at least some of us see
Mark 13: 20 “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them. 21 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. 22 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time. 24 “But in those days, following that distress,
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
25 the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
28 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. 30 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Notice, Jesus is telling these disciples not about IF these things will happen, but WHEN they will happen and is also telling them that ALL of these things will take place in their generation.
So, how come Christianity did not die in 2nd century AD?
BigV,
Because the apostolic church, and including many of the early church fathers underdstood the Olivet discourse as a past event, consummated in 70 AD when the Romans sacked Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple of Herod.
EUSEBIUS Bishop of Caesarea (c. 265 - 340) Extract from the 'Theophania'
"All authorities concur in the declaration that "when all these things should have been done" "The End" should come : that "the mystery of God should be finished as he had declared to His servants the prophets" : it should be completed : time should now be no more : the End of all things (so foretold) should be at hand, and be fully brought to pass : in these days should be fulfilled all that had been spoken of Christ (and of His church) by the prophets : or, in other words, when the gospel should have been preached in all the world for a testimony to all nations, and the power of the Holy People be scattered (abroad), then should the End come, then should all these things be finished. I need now only say, all these things have been done : the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem--all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realized on earth; all these things have been done in the sight of all the nations ; God's holy arm has been made bare in their sight: His judgments have prevailed, and they remain for an everlasting testimony to the whole world.His kingdom has come, as it was foretold it should, and His will has, so far, been done; His purposes have been finished; and, from that day to the extreme end of time, it will be the duty, as indeed it will be the great privilege of the Church, to gather into its bosom the Jew, the Greek, the Scythian, the Barbarian, bond and free; and to do this as the Apostles did in their days--in obedience, faith and hope.'
Most of the Apostolic, Pre-nicene and Nicene Fathers were Amillennial with lots of Preterist ideas embellished in them. Premillenialism didn't really make its way into the clergy till post reformation. Most if not all of the church fathers from late first century onwards believed that the Danielic, Messiniac and the Apocalypse's prophecies referred thorughout the minor and major prophets about the end times were a past event. I can even go as far as telling you that almost 90% of the "resurrection" prophecies seen throughout the Pauline epistles were considered to be fulfilled in the late first century AD....FYI. It is the emerging premillenial church established by folks like the Millerites who began twisting the prophecies of the end times to pertain to the then present day, till now. Most of this YEC (Young Earth Creationism), premillenial views, were formed in defense of the ongoing and scientific endeavors which were coming to light in the 19th century. Because of the evidence that was beginning to surmount that the earth was indeed much older than the literal reading of the text infers, and quite possibly that mankind was in fact an evolved species, the church radicallized into a literal wooden reading of the scriptures to combat the growing resistance to the church at large, who defended creation ex nihilo of man.
Because the apostolic church, and including many of the early church fathers underdstood the Olivet discourse as a past event, consummated in 70 AD when the Romans sacked Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple of Herod.
EUSEBIUS Bishop of Caesarea (c. 265 - 340) Extract from the 'Theophania'
"All authorities concur in the declaration that "when all these things should have been done" "The End" should come : that "the mystery of God should be finished as he had declared to His servants the prophets" : it should be completed : time should now be no more : the End of all things (so foretold) should be at hand, and be fully brought to pass : in these days should be fulfilled all that had been spoken of Christ (and of His church) by the prophets : or, in other words, when the gospel should have been preached in all the world for a testimony to all nations, and the power of the Holy People be scattered (abroad), then should the End come, then should all these things be finished. I need now only say, all these things have been done : the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem--all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realized on earth; all these things have been done in the sight of all the nations ; God's holy arm has been made bare in their sight: His judgments have prevailed, and they remain for an everlasting testimony to the whole world.His kingdom has come, as it was foretold it should, and His will has, so far, been done; His purposes have been finished; and, from that day to the extreme end of time, it will be the duty, as indeed it will be the great privilege of the Church, to gather into its bosom the Jew, the Greek, the Scythian, the Barbarian, bond and free; and to do this as the Apostles did in their days--in obedience, faith and hope.'
Most of the Apostolic, Pre-nicene and Nicene Fathers were Amillennial with lots of Preterist ideas embellished in them. Premillenialism didn't really make its way into the clergy till post reformation. Most if not all of the church fathers from late first century onwards believed that the Danielic, Messiniac and the Apocalypse's prophecies referred thorughout the minor and major prophets about the end times were a past event. I can even go as far as telling you that almost 90% of the "resurrection" prophecies seen throughout the Pauline epistles were considered to be fulfilled in the late first century AD....FYI. It is the emerging premillenial church established by folks like the Millerites who began twisting the prophecies of the end times to pertain to the then present day, till now. Most of this YEC (Young Earth Creationism), premillenial views, were formed in defense of the ongoing and scientific endeavors which were coming to light in the 19th century. Because of the evidence that was beginning to surmount that the earth was indeed much older than the literal reading of the text infers, and quite possibly that mankind was in fact an evolved species, the church radicallized into a literal wooden reading of the scriptures to combat the growing resistance to the church at large, who defended creation ex nihilo of man.
that's strange for not only futurists, but also idealists, historicists and yes even preterists (called partial-preterists) believe that Jesus has a literal second coming. views differ from each other, but the fact that he returns to Earth to establish his kingdom is universally accepted.. or at least should be!
'iam not telling you personally, for i don't even know what your point of view is concerning this matter, just saying that it is also written that most scoffers and skeptics will rise in the final gen.. wolf has been cried so many times that those living in the end-times will not pay heed to warnings any more.. and this is something we can see every single day.. or at least some of us see
Very true. Even the so-called believers (universalist) aren't watching for the Lord's return. It's going to be really sad on the day of the Lord. For MANY people. I pray I'm counted worthy to escape!
Because the apostolic church, and including many of the early church fathers underdstood the Olivet discourse as a past event, consummated in 70 AD when the Romans sacked Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple of Herod.
RESPONSE:
So you are claiming that these events actually happened in 70 AD?
“But in those days, following that distress,
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
25 the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens."
But evidently no body noticed?
Or might this all be fiction that never really happened?
Mark 13: 20 “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them. 21 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. 22 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time. 24 “But in those days, following that distress,
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
25 the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
28 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. 30 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Notice, Jesus is telling these disciples not about IF these things will happen, but WHEN they will happen and is also telling them that ALL of these things will take place in their generation.
So, how come Christianity did not die in 2nd century AD?
Not in their generation, but the generation of those who "see these things happen". When things start happening, it will end in one generation. If rebirth of Israel is sign (a fig tree) as many believe, then it would be one generation from 1948 or 1967 (retaking of Jerusalem).
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 06-21-2011 at 01:20 PM..
Mark 13: 20 “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them. 21 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. 22 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time. 24 “But in those days, following that distress,
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
25 the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
28 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. 30 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Notice, Jesus is telling these disciples not about IF these things will happen, but WHEN they will happen and is also telling them that ALL of these things will take place in their generation.
So, how come Christianity did not die in 2nd century AD?
This prophecy and its counterpart in Matt and Luke refers to two distinct separate events. The destruction of Jerusalem, and the second coming. The term 'this generation' thus has two applications. The first is to the generation Jesus was speaking to which indeed did see the city's destruction. The second application applies to the generation which would see the signs of the second coming. That generation which sees the signs would also witness the second coming.
Mark 13: 20 “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them. 21 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. 22 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time. 24 “But in those days, following that distress,
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
25 the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
28 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. 30 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Notice, Jesus is telling these disciples not about IF these things will happen, but WHEN they will happen and is also telling them that ALL of these things will take place in their generation.
So, how come Christianity did not die in 2nd century AD?
Because the prophecy was about the national judgment of the Jews in 70AD. Not about christianity at all.
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