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Except you are preaching your own scripture, the name that Christ called God in his lifetime on earth is FATHER.
Now , if the Father manifest on earth, then like Jesus, he will have a name. That name, still does not make 'Father' irrelevant. Stop wasting your time inventing names for God. Just know him as The Father. That was the name Christ revealed to his disciples. It is not a title, it is his Name.
The phrase "the FATHER manifest (MEANING: 'MADE KNOWN' or 'REVEALED') on Earth" means that Father Yahweh was MADE KNOWN or REVEALED on earth. Father Yahweh was MADE KNOWN or REVEALED on earth THROUGH His SON, Yahshua. I never said that our Heavenly FATHER and Creator did not have a Name, since I have clearly MADE His Name KNOWN to the real MEN and WoMEN who have eyes to see (PERCEIVE or UNDERSTAND) and ears to Hear PERCEIVE and UNDERSTAND) on this forum just as His SON Yahshua MADE His Name KNOWN to the MEN that He gave him from the world. Following are diverse translations that manifest (REVEAL or MAKE KNOWN) the truth of Scripture:
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
American King James Version
I have manifested your name to the men which you gave me out of the world: your they were, and you gave them me; and they have kept your word.
American Standard Version
I manifested thy name unto the men whom thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them to me; and they have kept thy word.
Douay-Rheims Bible
I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou hast given me out of the world. Thine they were, and to me thou gavest them; and they have kept thy word.
Darby Bible Translation
I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou gavest me out of the world. They were thine, and thou gavest them me, and they have kept thy word.
English Revised Version
I manifested thy name unto the men whom thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them to me; and they have kept thy word.
Webster's Bible Translation
I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou gavest to me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them to me; and they have kept thy word.
World English Bible
I revealed your name to the people whom you have given me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me. They have kept your word.
Young's Literal Translation
I did manifest Thy name to the men whom Thou hast given to me out of the world; Thine they were, and to me Thou hast given them, and Thy word they have kept;
It is quite clear in what Yahshua communicated ["prayed"] to his and our FATHER Yahweh Who IS ["ART"] IN HEAVEN when he himself WAS HERE ON EARTH (or "IN THE WORLD") that he manifested (REVEALED or MADE KNOWN) his and our FATHER's Name to the men that He gave him from the world. I am simply following His SON Yahshua's example (who is commonly referred to as "The Great Exemplar") in manifesting (REVEALING or MAKING KNOWN) his and our Heavenly FATHER and Creator's Name to the people of this forum.
Yahshua goes on communing ["praying"] to his and our FATHER Yahweh IN HEAVEN the following manner:
CLICK HERE to read and study on what Yahshua continued to communicate ["pray"] in context to his and our FATHER Yahweh WHO IS IN HEAVEN when he himself WAS HERE ON EARTH (or "IN THE WORLD").
I am not wasting time making up names (plural) for YOUR "God", but instead am revealing our Heavenly FATHER and Creator's ONE and ONLY Name (SINGULAR). I know our Heavenly FATHER and Creator by His Name Yahweh as it has been revealed to me and the entire world in the so-called "Old Testament" that the Apostles, Yahshua and his students were taught from. They were not taught from the so-called "New Testament", since this section of Scripture had not yet been compiled until long after their deaths.
When one studies the so-called "Old Testamment" in Hebrew from which the Apostles, Yahshua and his students learned from, one can see our Heavenly FATHER and Creator's Name revealed there as four Hebrew letter character's which are transliterated/transcribed into our English langauge as YHWH and commonly pronounced as Yahweh.
"Father" is most certainly never used in our English language as a name, but is instead used as a title that can represent anyone who is a father. The word 'father' in no way distinguishes one father from another. It is the names of theses fathers that distinguishes one father from another. The Name Yahweh distinguishes as representing our Heavenly Father and Creator.
From the following dictionary reference it can be clearly seen that the word 'name' in our English language is used to "designate" or distinguish and used as a title:
name ... noun, verb, named, nam·ing, adjective noun
1. a word or a combination of words by which a person, place, or thing, a body or class, or any object of thought is designated, called, or known.
2. mere designation, as distinguished from fact: He was a king in name only.
3. an appellation, title, or epithet, applied descriptively, in honor, abuse, etc.
4. a reputation of a particular kind given by common opinion: to protect one's good name.
5. a distinguished, famous, or great reputation; fame: to make a name for oneself. SOURCE
From the following dictionary reference it can be clearly seen that the word 'father' in our English language is never defined as a "name":
fa-ther ... noun
1. a male parent.
2. a father-in-law, stepfather, or adoptive father.
3. any male ancestor, especially the founder of a race, family, or line; progenitor.
4. a man who exercises paternal care over other persons; paternal protector or provider: a father to the poor.
5. a person who has originated or established something: the father of modern psychology; the founding fathers. SOURCE
Since it is quite obvious that you have a problem with my posts to this forum in saying ...
Quote:
Stop wasting your time inventing names for God. Just know him as The Father. That was the name Christ revealed to his disciples. It is not a title, it is his Name.
,
... I have no alternative but to add you to my ignore list on this forum to resolve the problem you have with my post on this forum.
Gods name is not Yawheh. His name is a mystery to the world.
I do not need your links because I know the name of the Lord and I keep His word.The name of the Lord is revealed to His servants and disciples, the son of man/ son of God.The reason you do not hear is that you are not my sheep.
My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can take them out of the Lord's hand.The Lord and I are one.
Isaiah)
Hear then, O Jacob, my servant, Israel, whom I have chosen.
Thus says the Lord who made you, your help, who formed you from the womb: Fear not, O Jacob, my servant, the darling whom I have chosen.
I will pour out water upon the thirsty ground, and streams upon the dry land; I will pour out my spirit upon your offspring, and my blessing upon your descendants.
Thus says the Lord, Israel's King and redeemer, the Lord of hosts: I am the first and I am the last; there is no God but me.
Remember this, O Jacob, you, O Israel, who are my servant! I formed you to be a servant to me. It is I who confirm the words of my servants, I carry out the plan announced by my messengers.
I will give you treasures out of the darkness, and riches that have been hidden away, That you may know that I am the Lord, the God of Israel, who calls you by your name.
For the sake of Jacob, my servant, of Israel my chosen one, I have called you by your name, giving you a title, though you knew me not.
I am the Lord and there is no other, there is no God besides me. It is I who arm you, though you know me not, so that toward the rising and the setting of the sun men may know that there is none besides me. I am the Lord, there is no other; I form the light, and create the darkness, I make well-being and create woe; I, the Lord, do all these things.
I, the Lord, speak the truth, I say what is right. Come here and declare in counsel together: Who announced this from the beginning and foretold it from of old? Was it not I, the Lord, besides whom there is no other God? There is no just and saving God but me.
Turn to me and be safe, all you ends of the earth, for I am God; there is no other!
By myself I swear, uttering my just decree and my unalterable word: To me every knee shall bend; by me every tongue shall swear,
Saying, Only in the Lord are just deeds and power.
In the Lord shall be the vindication and the glory of all the descendants of Israel.
If I do not perform my Father's works, do not believe me;
but if I perform them, even if you do not believe me, put faith in the works, so that you may realize that the Lord is in me and I am in the Lord.
I am the resurrection and the life; anyone who believes in me, even though he died, he will come to life, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. The Lord and I are ONE. He sent me.
Really ??
You sound so sure
YHVH ....
most often than not we can succumb to the religious mindset (worldly)
that we are the only ones that have a relationship with "ADONAI"
when nothing can be further from the truth
Gods name is not Yawheh. His name is a mystery to the world.
I do not need your links because I know the name of the Lord and I keep His word.The name of the Lord is revealed to His servants and disciples, the son of man/ son of God.The reason you do not hear is that you are not my sheep.
My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can take them out of the Lord's hand.The Lord and I are one.
Isaiah)
Hear then, O Jacob, my servant, Israel, whom I have chosen.
Thus says the Lord who made you, your help, who formed you from the womb: Fear not, O Jacob, my servant, the darling whom I have chosen.
I will pour out water upon the thirsty ground, and streams upon the dry land; I will pour out my spirit upon your offspring, and my blessing upon your descendants.
Thus says the Lord, Israel's King and redeemer, the Lord of hosts: I am the first and I am the last; there is no God but me.
Remember this, O Jacob, you, O Israel, who are my servant! I formed you to be a servant to me. It is I who confirm the words of my servants, I carry out the plan announced by my messengers.
I will give you treasures out of the darkness, and riches that have been hidden away, That you may know that I am the Lord, the God of Israel, who calls you by your name.
For the sake of Jacob, my servant, of Israel my chosen one, I have called you by your name, giving you a title, though you knew me not.
I am the Lord and there is no other, there is no God besides me. It is I who arm you, though you know me not, so that toward the rising and the setting of the sun men may know that there is none besides me. I am the Lord, there is no other; I form the light, and create the darkness, I make well-being and create woe; I, the Lord, do all these things.
I, the Lord, speak the truth, I say what is right. Come here and declare in counsel together: Who announced this from the beginning and foretold it from of old? Was it not I, the Lord, besides whom there is no other God? There is no just and saving God but me.
Turn to me and be safe, all you ends of the earth, for I am God; there is no other!
By myself I swear, uttering my just decree and my unalterable word: To me every knee shall bend; by me every tongue shall swear,
Saying, Only in the Lord are just deeds and power.
In the Lord shall be the vindication and the glory of all the descendants of Israel.
If I do not perform my Father's works, do not believe me;
but if I perform them, even if you do not believe me, put faith in the works, so that you may realize that the Lord is in me and I am in the Lord.
I am the resurrection and the life; anyone who believes in me, even though he died, he will come to life, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. The Lord and I are ONE. He sent me.
Good post. YHWH says he is the ONLY GOD and the ONLY Savior. Jesus is our Savior, he is YHWH GOD.
Some more passages to chew on.
Acts 1
1The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
12Then returned they unto Jerusalem fromthe mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
Zechariah 14
1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. LORD (All Caps) = יְהֹוָה = YHWH
Jesus is going to descend upon the Mount of Olives as Messiah Ben David. YHWH is going to "go forth" and fight against "those nations" that fought against Jerusalem on the Mount of Olives.
9And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
12And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
13The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
Hebrew interlinear Bible
נִי וְתַחֲנ
u·thchnunim
and·supplications
יט וְהִ ִ
u·ebitu
and·they-clook
אֵלַי
al·i
to·me אֵת - Untranslated Word - Aleph Tau (Hebrew) > Alpha Omega (Greek)
Should be translated and they shall look upon me the Alpha and the Omega whom they have pierced
Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. Alpha and Omega is YHWH.
Revelation 1
7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Yahshua Is NOT the FATHER, But Is the SON OF the FATHER!
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786
Good post. YHWH says he is the ONLY GOD and the ONLY Savior. Jesus is our Savior, he is YHWH GOD.
Some more passages to chew on.
Acts 1
1The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
12Then returned they unto Jerusalem fromthe mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
Zechariah 14
1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
LORD (All Caps) = יְהֹוָה = YHWH
Jesus is going to descend upon the Mount of Olives as Messiah Ben David. YHWH is going to "go forth" and fight against "those nations" that fought against Jerusalem on the Mount of Olives.
Jesus is YHWH
Yes, at the time FATHER Yahweh spoke saying that He was the only Almighty One ["God"], He in fact was the only Redeemer, but in this last time period He has given His SON ALL power (authority) in heaven and in the earth and this ALL power (authority) most certainly included the power (authority) to redeem mankind from sin and death. This is why Yahshua can also be known as our redeemer with his and our FATHER Yahweh as our Supreme Redeemer in this last time period. BEFORE this last time period FATHER Yahweh ALONE or was the ONE and ONLY Redeemer, since Yahshua did not pre-exist his birth as an actual being that was with FATHER Yahweh is the beginning.
This being said, FATHER Yahweh is still, and always will be our Supreme Redeemer. In fact, it was FATHER Yahweh Who redeemed his SON Yahshua from death and the grave.
A Prophetic Psalm of Dawid Concerning FATHER Yahweh's SON Yahshua:
World English Bible (edited)
For You will not leave my soul [body] in sheol [the grave], neither will you allow Your set apart ["holy"] one to see corruption (Psalm 16:10).
Note that in Hebrews 5:7 it is made known that Yahshua had "reverent submission" to his and our FATHER Yahweh. Yahshua did not have "reverent submission" to himself, but to his and our FATHER Yahweh. This verse in itself proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Yahshua ["Jesus"] IS NOT his and our FATHER Yahweh ["God"], but is in fact the SON of FATHER Yahweh. Any simpleton knows that one can not be their own FATHER and that one can not be their own SON!
Yahshua ["Jesus"] is not his and our FATHER Yahweh, but is in fact the SON of FATHER Yahweh. Yahshua is frequently recorded in the so-called "New Testament" as referring to Yahweh ["God"] as his and our FATHERWHO IS IN HEAVEN when he himself WAS HERE ON EARTH (or "IN THE WORLD").
Note also that in Mattithyah [Matthew] 28:18 Yahshua says "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me ..." Why would Yahshua need to be GIVEN authority (power) in heaven and in the earth if he is Yahweh ["God"]? FATHER Yahweh would not need to be GIVEN all power (authority) in heaven and in the earth, since He has always had ALL power (authority). This verse alone also in itself proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Yahshua ["Jesus"] IS NOT his and our FATHER Yahweh ["God"], but is in fact the SON of FATHER Yahweh as does many other verses and passages through the Scripture. Again, any simpleton knows that one can not be their own FATHER and that one can not be their own SON!
Yes, at the time FATHER Yahweh spoke saying that He was the only Almighty One ["God"], He in fact was the only Redeemer, but in this last time period He has given His SON ALL power (authority) in heaven and in the earth and this ALL power (authority) most certainly included the power (authority) to redeem mankind from sin and death. This is why Yahshua can also be known as our redeemer with his and our FATHER Yahweh as our Supreme Redeemer in this last time period. BEFORE this last time period FATHER Yahweh ALONE or was the ONE and ONLY Redeemer, since Yahshua did not pre-exist his birth as an actual being that was with FATHER Yahweh is the beginning.
This being said, FATHER Yahweh is still, and always will be our Supreme Redeemer. In fact, it was FATHER Yahweh Who redeemed his SON Yahshua from death and the grave.
A Prophetic Psalm of Dawid Concerning FATHER Yahweh's SON Yahshua:
World English Bible (edited)
For You will not leave my soul [body] in sheol [the grave], neither will you allow Your set apart ["holy"] one to see corruption (Psalm 16:10).
Note that in Hebrews 5:7 it is made known that Yahshua had "reverent submission" to his and our FATHER Yahweh. Yahshua did not have "reverent submission" to himself, but to his and our FATHER Yahweh. This verse in itself proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Yahshua ["Jesus"] IS NOT his and our FATHER Yahweh ["God"], but is in fact the SON of FATHER Yahweh. Any simpleton knows that one can not be their own FATHER and that one can not be their own SON!
Yahshua ["Jesus"] is not his and our FATHER Yahweh, but is in fact the SON of FATHER Yahweh. Yahshua is frequently recorded in the so-called "New Testament" as referring to Yahweh ["God"] as his and our FATHERWHO IS IN HEAVEN when he himself WAS HERE ON EARTH (or "IN THE WORLD").
Note also that in Mattithyah [Matthew] 28:18 Yahshua says "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me ..." Why would Yahshua need to be GIVEN authority (power) in heaven and in the earth if he is Yahweh ["God"]? FATHER Yahweh would not need to be GIVEN all power (authority) in heaven and in the earth, since He has always had ALL power (authority). This verse alone also in itself proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Yahshua ["Jesus"] IS NOT his and our FATHER Yahweh ["God"], but is in fact the SON of FATHER Yahweh as does many other verses and passages through the Scripture. Again, any simpleton knows that one can not be their own FATHER and that one can not be their own SON!
"since Yahshua did not pre-exist his birth as an actual being that was with FATHER Yahweh is the beginning."
John 6:33
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
John 3
13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 1:27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
John the Baptist talking in John 1:27, says Jesus was before him even though John was born before Jesus. Jesus pre-existed his incarnation in the Virgin Birth.
Exodus 3:14
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Jesus sent Moses to the children of Israel. Jesus is God.
Jesus said he was the "I Am" talking to Moses.
The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father. The Father is in the Son while the Son is in the Father in the Holy Spirit which are ONE.
This is what the Scriptures teach. Attempting to reconcile this with our finite, mortal brains is attempting to bring God down from Heaven.
Let "Us" Make man in our own image (Genesis). Let "Us" go down to confound their Language. etc 3 distinct "persons" in one YHWH God.
"since Yahshua did not pre-exist his birth as an actual being that was with FATHER Yahweh is the beginning."
John 6:33
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
John 3
13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
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Yahshua Came Down From Heaven
By Voy Wilks
1990 - Revised 1993
"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him who sent me; ..." (John 6:38, KJV).
I have searched the Scriptures at length and (assuming I overlooked none), have found that the Apostle John is the only witness which says Yahshua came down from heaven. John mentions this several times. They are listed here for your convenience:
Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul, Peter, James, and Jude make no mention that Yahshua "came down from heaven.
Some believe that every major doctrine must have two witnesses. On this major point, however, we have only one witness who testifies that "Yahshua came down from heaven." Such an astonishing bit of history as this should have several witnesses. But no. There is only one witness - the Apostle John. What are we to make of this surprising bit of information?
Actually, my view is, when biblical Scriptures are involved, only one witness is needed. However, something so outstanding as this would surely have been mentioned by other New Testament writers if this is to be accepted as literally true. From the list above, we see that no other New Testament writer records that "Yahshua came down from heaven." Figures of Speech
In reading through the book of Saint John, we discover that he indulges in many figures of speech; more than any other New Testament writer. Perhaps some will protest "But John wrote exact quotations from the Master's lips!" Perhaps this is true. If so, the other New Testament writers evidently gave the meaning of Yahshua's messages, rather than the exact quotations. Let us note an example:
"... Yahshua stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water" (John 7:37,38 KJV).
Dropping the flowery figures of speech, the real message is: "One day my disciples will receive the Holy Spirit in a most powerful way" (John 3:39 (http://bible.cc/john/3-39.htm - broken link); Acts 2:4).
Compare John's report (above) with Luke's report on the same topic:
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children; how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those that ask him?" (Luke 11:13). Misleading the Opposition
On many occasions Yahshua spoke in metaphors and in ambiguous parables to purposely mislead the opposition.
"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. ... Therefore speak I unto them in parables; because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand ..." (Mt. 13:10-15).
"... unto them that are without (cf. Rev. 22:15), all these things are done in parables: that seeing they may see, and ,not perceive; and hearing may hear, and not understand; lest at anytime they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them" (Mark 4:11,12).
Another example: "Yahshua said unto them, Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up" (John 2:19). He spoke of his death and resurrection, not the temple building (John 2:21,22).
On some occasions, even his disciples did not understand his parables, and asked him to explain (Mt. 13:36; Mark 8:14-17).
On other occasions Yahshua answered questions with questions; often, with questions they did not understand, or could not respond to (Mark 11:29; 12:34b). On still other occasions, he purposely made them angry, so that they wished to kill him (Mt. 23:17,19,24,25,33; Mark 7:19-23; John 7:32-46). Yahshua Pre-existed (In the Father's Plan)
Evidently Yahshua pre-existed, but only in the sense that he was in the Father's glorious plans, and had been since the foundation of the world (John 17:5, 24), {See the paper dealing with this Scripture}. In the same sense, Yahshua was "slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 13:8). Obviously, he was not literally and actually killed before the world was made, but it was in the Father's plan that the Messiah would be slain to redeem mankind.
In a similar way and in the same sense, Yahshua "came down from heaven." That is, he went out (according to plan) preaching by the authority of heaven; that is, by Yahweh's authority.
Since both the Father and the plans were in heaven, Yahshua did, in this sense, come down from heaven. Therefore, when he had completed all assignments planned for his first coming, he ascended to heaven where he was before" (in Yahweh's plan) (John 6:62). Remember, Yahshua spoke in parables for the express purpose of blinding the Jewish opposition (Mt. 13:10-15 (http://bible.cc/matthew/13-10.htm%22 - broken link); Mark 4:11,12). Every Good Gift Comes Down From Above
Yahshua "came down from heaven." A similar statement reads as follows:
"Every good gift and every perfect gift IS FROM ABOVE, and cometh down from the Father of lights, ..." (James 1:17).
James spoke of spiritual gifts in particular, but this is true of everything, including the physical blessings we receive. Take the lowly potato: we dig it from the ground. However, if it were not for the "blessings which come down from above," the ground would not produce the potato for our use. All good gifts come down from above, from the Father of lights. This truth can be expressed in any one, or all, of the following ways:
Gifts from above, Gifts from heaven
Blessings of heaven, Blessings from Yahweh
As noted above, James spoke especially of spiritual blessings. Undoubtedly, our greatest spiritual blessing is Yahshua, the Messiah. He was in the Father's plan, even before the world was made (Eph. 1:10; RSV; 1 Peter 1:20), therefore Yahshua's coming is a "good and perfect gift from above" (James 1:17). Just as the lowly potato appears in the ground as a gift from above, so Yahshua (born of a woman) appeared as a gift from above. Yahshua, as well as the potato, had ancestors, not a pre-existence, as indicated in the following Scriptures:
David, "... being a prophet, and knowing that Yahweh had sworn with an oath to him, that of THE FRUIT OF HIS LOINS, according to the FLESH, he would raise up Messiah to sit on his [David's] throne; ..." (Acts 2:30; Rev. 5:5 (http://bible.cc/relation/5-5.htm - broken link); 22:16; Heb. 7:14; Jer. 33:20-22).
We have considered the blessings which come down from above. On some occasions evil also comes down from above - from Yahweh" (Micah 1:12). On this occasion Yahweh brought it about by the use of invading armies who took the people captive (Micah 1:6,16). No pre-existence was involved. John's Baptism
Yahshua asked the opposition, "The baptism of John, whence was it? From heaven, or form men?" (Mt. 21:25; Mark 11:30; Luke 20:4).
Obviously, John's baptism was "from heaven." Metonymy is used here. "Heaven" an euphemism, an expression indicating the authority of heaven; an epithet designating Yahweh, the ruler in heaven. Yahweh approved and supported John, his preaching, his baptism, and his work. Just as the baptism of John came from heaven, so Yahshua came from heaven. Both John and Yahshua were approved (authorized) by Yahweh - "our Father who is in heaven" (Mt. 6:9).
Other Scriptures speak in a similar fashion, as is indicated by these references:
As opposed to earthly envy, sensual and devilish thoughts and conduct, "... the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits. ..." (James 3:16,17).
"They set their mouth against the heavens, ..." (Ps. 73:9).
The thought is, "wisdom from above," and the "heaven(s): are euphemisms for Yahweh and his authority and his influence.
Even the expression, the "kingdom of heaven," is revealed. The kingdom is not in heaven. Instead it was (and will be) on the earth. However, it is planned and authorized by him who is in heaven; Yahweh, the Most High El.
Conclusion
How can we be sure the above understanding is correct? We can be sure because Scriptures in the Old and New Testaments indicate the following evidences:
There is only one Yahweh (Neh. 9:6; Ps. 83:18), therefore Yahshua was never a Yahweh. See the paper, "One Lone Yahweh (http://www.halleluyah.org/one_lone_yahweh.htm - broken link)."
There is only one true El (Isa 43:10,11; John 17:3), therefore Yahshua was never an El.
There is only one true Eloah (Ps. 18:31; 114:4), therefore Yahshua was never an Eloah.
Yahshua was never an angel (Heb. 1:5,13, NEB), therefore Yahshua did not pre-exist as an angel.
The fleshly (physical) body comes first. Only later comes the spiritual body (1 Cor. 15:46). This speaks directly about Yahshua's person. Therefore Yahshua did not pre-exist as a spiritual being.
Yahshua was born of a woman (Gal. 4:4), therefore Yahshua was truly flesh and blood; a human being (Heb. 2:14).
Yahshua was the "fruit of David's loins" (Acts 2:30), therefore Yahshua was fully human - flesh and blood.
Yahshua had the same origin as his brethern (Heb. 2:11), therefore Yahshua, originally, was not Deity.
Man was created a little lower than the angels, therefore Yahshua was, originally, lower than the angels (Heb. 2:6-9).
Moses predicted that Yahweh would raise up from among his brethern a prophet "like unto me" (Deut. 18:15-19). If Yahshua was Deity in human form, he would not have been "like" Moses.
Yahshua spoke in parables to purposely mislead the opposition, therefore some of his statements must not be taken literally.
Yahshua purposely angered the opposition, therefore they developed a strong desire to kill him.
Only the Apostle John reported that Yahshua came down from heaven. If literally true, we would expect other writers to report this. Since they did not, we must except this as a figure of speech, indicating that Yahshua's approval and authority came down from heaven - from Yahweh above.
The baptism of John was also "from heaven." Did John or his baptism pre-exist?
All good and perfect gifts "come down from above, from the Father of lights." This includes the lowly potato as well as Yahshua the Nazarene.
Both Yahshua and the potato were here, not because they pre-existed, because both had ancestors.
Brethern, Scriptures indicate Yahshua existed, even before the world began, but only in Yahweh's glorious plan (Eph. 1:9, RSV). Since both Yahweh and his plan were in heaven, Yahshua "came down from heaven." This statement is a figure of speech, indicating Yahshua's authority was from above; from Yahweh, the Most High El.
Come, Yahshua Messiah!
Note: We have more than 60 papers about the non-pre-existence of Yahshua. If interested, PLEASE ASK FOR THEM.
John 3
13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 1:27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
John the Baptist talking in John 1:27, says Jesus was before him even though John was born before Jesus. Jesus pre-existed his incarnation in the Virgin Birth.
No, it does not say "Jesus was before him", it says "is preferred before me". Quite a difference here! You have conveniently ELIMINATEd the word "preferred". We are not to add unto Father Yahweh's prophetic inspired word nor TAKE AWAY (OR ELIMINATE) from His word. There is a WARNING in Scripture from doing this!
When he said that Yahshua was "preferred before me" he was speaking of Yahshua preeminence over him, not that Yahshua pre-existed before him or pre-existed his birth.
Exodus 3:14
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Again, When Yahshua here said "Before Abraham was,I am." he was speaking of his preeminence over (or being GREATER THAN) Abraham in answer to his Jewish opponents in their saying previously:
Are you GREATER THAN our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?" (Yahchanan [John] 8:53).
Please see my web page as follows on this subject for more in depth studies:
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Yahshua Is NOT the FATHER, But Is the SON OF the FATHER!
There is only one Yahweh (
