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No, it does not say "Jesus was before him", it says "is preferred before me". Quite a difference here! You have conveniently ELIMINATEd the word "preferred". We are not to add unto Father Yahweh's prophetic inspired word nor TAKE AWAY (OR ELIMINATE) from His word. There is a WARNING in Scripture from doing this!
When he said that Yahshua was "preferred before me" he was speaking of Yahshua preeminence over him, not that Yahshua pre-existed before him or pre-existed his birth.
Preferred - Strong's G1096 - ginomai 1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being 2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen a) of events 3) to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage a) of men appearing in public 4) to be made, finished a) of miracles, to be performed, wrought 5) to become, be made Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Nothing was taken away. I should have posted this to eliminate any confusion. The passage is saying Jesus existed prior to John. John was born prior to Jesus however. Jesus pre-existed prior to the incarnation.
Last edited by Mikelee81; 03-27-2012 at 06:21 PM..
I have not read the entire thread so it,s possible some one else already made this point.
There is no mystery at all about the name of Almighty God. He clearly told Moses what His name is when Moses asked Him, "Who should I say sent me?" "I Am Who I AM" is the name God gave him. That is God's name. Because of what Jesus did for us we can call Him Abba Father.
Again, When Yahshua here said "Before Abraham was,I am." he was speaking of his preeminence over (or being GREATER THAN) Abraham in answer to his Jewish opponents in their saying previously:
Are you GREATER THAN our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?" (Yahchanan [John] 8:53).
Please see my web page as follows on this subject for more in depth studies:
57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Jesus' was responding to them questioning how he Abraham rejoiced to see his day. They questioned his appearance of Age questioning how could he know Abraham. His response was regarding his Pre-existance. Not only did he know Abraham, he existed prior to him.
The Jew's response indeed sets the exclamation point. Jesus was proclaiming to be THE "I Am" - the voice in the Burning bush that said he was GOD.
Jesus sent Moses to the children of Israel. Jesus is God.
Jesus said he was the "I Am" talking to Moses.
Nowhere in ANY translation of Scripture does it ever say any of the above that you have posted. There is no mention of anyone named ""Jesus" in the so-called "Old Testament" talking to Moshe. It was Yahshua's and our FATHER Yahweh Who is IN HEAVEN that sent Moshe to the children of Ysryl, not anyone named "Jesus". When Yahshua said "I am" [ego eimi (ἐγώ εἰμι)] he was simply giving reference to himself just as we give reference to ourselves in saying "I am". There are many others in Scripture who give reference to themselves in saying "I am" without proclaiming that they are Father Yahweh or "God". Also nowhere in ANY translation of Scripture does it ever say "Jesus is God."
Again, please see my web page as follows that discusses this very subject with many in depth study links within:
57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Jesus' was responding to them questioning how he Abraham rejoiced to see his day. They questioned his appearance of Age questioning how could he know Abraham. His response was regarding his Pre-existance. Not only did he know Abraham, he existed prior to him.
The Jew's response indeed sets the exclamation point. Jesus was proclaiming to be THE "I Am" - the voice in the Burning bush that said he was GOD.
When Yahshua spoke to his Jewish opponents he spoke to them parabolically to confuse them, since they were constantly out to entrap him in his words. They were in no way interested in knowing the truth!
The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?" He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isayah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'
Note also that in Mattithyah [Matthew] 28:18 Yahshua says "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me ..." Why would Yahshua need to be GIVEN authority (power) in heaven and in the earth if he is Yahweh ["God"]? FATHER Yahweh would not need to be GIVEN all power (authority) in heaven and in the earth, since He has always had ALL power (authority). This verse alone also in itself proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Yahshua ["Jesus"] IS NOT his and our FATHER Yahweh ["God"], but is in fact the SON of FATHER Yahweh as does many other verses and passages through the Scripture. Again, any simpleton knows that one can not be their own FATHER and that one can not be their own SON!
"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me ..."
Who is the usurping "God of this Age" (2 Corinthians 4:4), the "Prince of this World", etc? Who offered the world to Messiah at the temptations? Satan. He couldn't tempt Christ if it didn't belong to him. The Lord Jesus through perfect submission to his Father's will conquering death in the resurrection claimed "ownership" back to the Father. The book of Hebrews makes the point that Christ "inherited" it. So all power has been given to the second person of the Godhead - Jesus Christ. He comes back at the second Advent to claim it back.
"Yahshua ["Jesus"] IS NOT his and our FATHER Yahweh ["God"], but is in fact the SON of FATHER Yahweh as does many other verses and passages through the Scripture."
YHWH exists in three distinct persons - Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
When Yahshua spoke to his Jewish opponents he spoke to them parabolically to confuse them, since they were constantly out to entrap him in his words. They were in no way interested in knowing the truth!
The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?" He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isayah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'
Sorry friend. To suggest this is some parable is a huge stretch. They simply asked him how could he know Abraham not even being 50 years old. Jesus responded that not only did he know Abraham, he pre-existed him claiming himself to be the "I am".
The Pharisees didn't pick up stones to throw at him because they were frustrated that they couldn't understand some Parable. They did it because he proclaimed he was the "I Am" - YHWH God of the Burning Bush.
I have not read the entire thread so it,s possible some one else already made this point.
There is no mystery at all about the name of Almighty God. He clearly told Moses what His name is when Moses asked Him, "Who should I say sent me?" "I Am Who I AM" is the name God gave him. That is God's name. Because of what Jesus did for us we can call Him Abba Father.
"I Am Who I AM" is not our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name, but is the etymological meaning of His Name in translation. In translations where you fine "LORD" in all small capital letters, this is where our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name is represented in the Hebrew with the four Hebrew letter character frequently referred to by the Greek word "tetragrammaton" which means in our English language 'four letters'. Please see my web pages as follows for an ABUNDANCE of in depth scholarly information on our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name and how it has been removed (TAKEN AWAY) from Scripture and substituted with inferior names/titles:
Nowhere in ANY translation of Scripture does it ever say any of the above that you have posted. There is no mention of anyone named ""Jesus" in the so-called "Old Testament" talking to Moshe. It was Yahshua's and our FATHER Yahweh Who is IN HEAVEN that sent Moshe to the children of Ysryl, not anyone named "Jesus". When Yahshua said "I am" [ego eimi (ἐγώ εἰμι)] he was simply giving reference to himself just as we give reference to ourselves in saying "I am". There are many others in Scripture who give reference to themselves in saying "I am" without proclaiming that they are Father Yahweh or "God". Also nowhere in ANY translation of Scripture does it ever say "Jesus is God."
Again, please see my web page as follows that discusses this very subject with many in depth study links within:
Considering the first bolded comment, The LORD doesn't come right out and tell us a lot some times does he? Many things seem like a puzzle - line upon line here a little there a little.
Considering the second bolded comment, what about..
Revelation 1
5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation 2
8And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Jesus calls himself the "Alpha and Omega". That name is reserved only for YHWH God.
Sorry about typing in all bold. Not sure why I can't change it.
"I Am Who I AM" is not our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name, but is the etymological meaning of His Name in translation. In translations where you fine "LORD" in all small capital letters, this is where our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name is represented in the Hebrew with the four Hebrew letter character frequently referred to by the Greek word "tetragrammaton" which means in our English language 'four letters'. Please see my web pages as follows for an ABUNDANCE of in depth scholarly information on our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name and how it has been removed (TAKEN AWAY) from Scripture and substituted with inferior names/titles:
Frank, what do you do with the John 1 and Colossians 1:14-17 passages that clearly identify Jesus as Creator God?
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