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Old 10-08-2011, 09:02 PM
 
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Doctrines of me have divided Christianity to the point where the truth of the bible if you agree with it or not, is just now seen as a matter of one's opinion. Jesus said that "I am the way, the TRUTH, and the LIFE, and no one can come to the father BUT BY ME." This statement was recorded directly out of Jesus' mouth, and no one can say that this statement is a matter of interpretation.
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Old 10-08-2011, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by antredd View Post
and no one can say that this statement is a matter of interpretation.
Unless they happen to notice that is written in English and Jesus(as) spoke Aramaic. It is a translation and all translations carry with them the interpretation of the translator.

The oldest copies of the Gospel of John, are in Koine Greek, so that means we do not have the actual words Jesus(as) spoke, only Greek translations at best, which will contain some degree of interpretation, but we will never know how much as we do not have any documentation of the actual Aramaic words Jesus(as) used.
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:38 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,295 posts, read 9,510,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
Doctrines of me have divided Christianity to the point where the truth of the bible if you agree with it or not, is just now seen as a matter of one's opinion. Jesus said that "I am the way, the TRUTH, and the LIFE, and no one can come to the father BUT BY ME." This statement was recorded directly out of Jesus' mouth, and no one can say that this statement is a matter of interpretation.
Amen, YES, Jesus is the way, the truth and the LIFE, and no one can come to the Father but by Me.....
......... thank you, Jesus, \O/
Yet.....
You know the more I think about it, I don't think it is so much the matter of doctrines.... it's the matter of the heart (pride) and men/women using doctrines for their excuse !!
If people would get off the throne of their hearts and let God do His work in them and walk in the Spirit of God..... the doctrine issues would fall by the way side, IMHO !!

Blessings
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:53 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,831 posts, read 11,398,495 times
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Unless they happen to notice that is written in English and Jesus(as) spoke Aramaic. It is a translation and all translations carry with them the interpretation of the translator.

The oldest copies of the Gospel of John, are in Koine Greek, so that means we do not have the actual words Jesus(as) spoke, only Greek translations at best, which will contain some degree of interpretation, but we will never know how much as we do not have any documentation of the actual Aramaic words Jesus(as) used.
Exactly!! This applies to the whole of the Bible. What we have are translations, and it is best not to get too caught up or too bogged down with exact words. The Bible is good for teaching, but to take it so literally as some people do is why we have the horrible things happening and that have happened over the centuries. It's the cause of many wars and divisions, right down to within families. Literalism is killing us.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:23 AM
 
28,901 posts, read 53,273,180 times
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Originally Posted by antredd View Post
Doctrines of me have divided Christianity to the point where the truth of the bible if you agree with it or not, is just now seen as a matter of one's opinion. Jesus said that "I am the way, the TRUTH, and the LIFE, and no one can come to the father BUT BY ME." This statement was recorded directly out of Jesus' mouth, and no one can say that this statement is a matter of interpretation.
Well, here's the problem with your statement. You assume that other Christian denominations disagree with you on that point, therefore they are in a different denomination than yours. The truth is that differences in opinion lie in emphasis, as in which passages get more weight than the others. For example, there is no authoritative passage that explicitly tells how to baptize or marry, etc. What you are doing, in effect, is indulging in a conceit that comes from pointing out what you believe are the shortcomings in the beliefs of others.

Instead of slamming all the other denominations aside from your True and Special One (Whatever it is), why don't you take inspiration from a passage from Paul's letter to the Romans, Chapter 14:

1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”[b]

12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.[c
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:49 AM
 
Location: New England
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Originally Posted by antredd View Post
Doctrines of me have divided Christianity to the point where the truth of the bible if you agree with it or not, is just now seen as a matter of one's opinion. Jesus said that "I am the way, the TRUTH, and the LIFE, and no one can come to the father BUT BY ME." This statement was recorded directly out of Jesus' mouth, and no one can say that this statement is a matter of interpretation.
Jesus is not saying this to use against all who don't believe. BUT BY ME,He is saying how I AM is the way to the Father.This is why we are all missing it, we have to BE(one with who you believe on) what He is,then we know the way to the Father.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 6,089,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
Doctrines of me have divided Christianity to the point where the truth of the bible if you agree with it or not, is just now seen as a matter of one's opinion. Jesus said that "I am the way, the TRUTH, and the LIFE, and no one can come to the father BUT BY ME." This statement was recorded directly out of Jesus' mouth, and no one can say that this statement is a matter of interpretation.
The FACT is...you do not KNOW FOR A FACT that this statement came directly out of Jesus' mouth...that is PURE SPECULATION and accepted by you by blind faith alone...given that the scriptures were written decades after Jesus was deceased and written by unknown sources as well.

And even if it can be attributed to Jesus....I'm quite certain Christianity has misconstrued and misunderstood the meaning of that statement.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:11 PM
 
1,263 posts, read 1,353,206 times
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Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
The FACT is...you do not KNOW FOR A FACT that this statement came directly out of Jesus' mouth...that is PURE SPECULATION and accepted by you by blind faith alone...given that the scriptures were written decades after Jesus was deceased and written by unknown sources as well.

And even if it can be attributed to Jesus....I'm quite certain Christianity has misconstrued and misunderstood the meaning of that statement.
Christians, those who follow the once crucified CHRIST, believe that the Bible is authored by God, through those He inspired. Thus the Bible is the inspired Word of God.

Unbelievers do not believe the Bible can be trusted for their salvation.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:21 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 6,780,876 times
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Originally Posted by saved33 View Post
Christians, those who follow the once crucified CHRIST, believe that the Bible is authored by God, through those He inspired. Thus the Bible is the inspired Word of God.

Unbelievers do not believe the Bible can be trusted for their salvation.
Actually, the OP talked about a problem that brings people to this point.

It is the vast disagreement within Christianity that creates the impression of untrustworthiness.

One says you must do this, another says you must do that, someone does this in the name of God, someone does that in the name of God. The bible says this, the bible says that. You in your post says another thing. You state that people cannot trust the bible for thier salvation, but why is that? Well because umpteen different people hold the bible and tell others what it says and they all say different things about what it says it takes to be saved.

The bible and unbelievers really isn't the problem. It is mostly the people holding it telling someone else what they had better do or else.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:24 PM
 
Location: New England
37,313 posts, read 27,314,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saved33 View Post
Christians, those who follow the once crucified CHRIST, believe that the Bible is authored by God, through those He inspired. Thus the Bible is the inspired Word of God.

Unbelievers do not believe the Bible can be trusted for their salvation.
God inspires you,me and Illene, does that mean we should use our inspiration over others or for others ?.Our lives according to scripture are authored by him too.The scriptures are a revealing of who God really is,and nothing more.They are a revelation of life and not sin and death, for if sin and death is what you are seeing,my advice would be to remove the veil to see more clearly so that you are able to see Christ.
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