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Old 11-06-2011, 11:42 AM
 
Location: New England
37,299 posts, read 26,388,016 times
Reputation: 2721

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
So you are saying that we don't have a personal relationship with Christ? Lord forbid, we are adopted into His family and forgiven by our faith thru His grace.
No I never said that at all. I said we are not forgiven and saved BY a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Salvation is known and experienced by the knowledge of our sins BEING forgiven.
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,600,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Finn, define old and new....
The old (US) were reconcilED. The new (US) are given the ministry of reconciliation to help those not reconciled so that they may know god is not counting their sins against them and be reconciled.

The grammar isn't that hard to comprehend.
Do you sin? Even being reconciled, do you sin? Do you repent for your post reconciliation sins? Of course, any Christian that is in Christ admits their sins and repents and becomes reconciled to God for transgression to His grace. It is a growth process.
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:45 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,799,936 times
Reputation: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes, you have already judged me as the enemy several times.

You are doing your usual spin & twist dance, but it won't work with me.
I really don't think PC is judging you. The Gospel that God (Jesus) gave to Paul is doing that. I've actually told both you and Mike555 this many times, not out of judgment but out of truth and what the Gospel proclaims.
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:46 AM
 
Location: New England
37,299 posts, read 26,388,016 times
Reputation: 2721
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
The MESSAGE of reconciliation is for ALL; the PROMISE of reconciliation is ONLY for those who BELIEVE that Christ is their Savior.


Why do I need to be saved, How does God say I can be saved, Plan of Salvation

"The Bible says that few will end up in Heaven and many will be on the wide road to destruction or Hell. Why? Because even thought Jesus paid for the sin of everyone it is because of sin and unbelief. Each person has to come to the realization that they acknowledge that they are a sinner, and that they have sinned against God. They have to come to believe and trust that Jesus already paid for their sin back at the cross; and that there is nothing whatsoever they can do to earn their way into a right relationship with God and Heaven."
Who is Paul saying to BE YE RECONCILED", the believer or unbeliever?. I am not interested at this moment in time,what the promise of reconciliation is,just a simple believer or unbeliever answer to to my question.
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:48 AM
 
13,142 posts, read 26,760,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Of cause it is individual .

Now where in your bible does it say we are forgiven and saved through a personal relationship with Christ ?

Here is what the scripture actually says.

To give his people the knowledge of salvation
***through the forgiveness of their sins,
because of the tender mercy of our God,
"Whoever", "who", "you", and "your" are individual, personal, words- not corporate or universal.

*John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM shall not perish but have eternal life.

Romans 10:9-10.
That if YOU confess with YOUR mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in YOUr heart that God raised him from the dead, YOU will be saved. For it is with YOUR heart that YOU believe and are justified, and it is with YOUR mouth that YOU confess and are saved.

Romans 10:13
For everyone WHO calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,600,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
No I never said that at all. I said we are not forgiven and saved BY a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Salvation is known and experienced by the knowledge of our sins BEING forgiven.
And how are our sins forgiven? By our personal relationship with Christ. If we don't have Christ then we don't have forgiveness. "Depart from me I knew you not."
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Florida
73,491 posts, read 43,637,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
I really don't think PC is judging you.
Of course he is.

Quote:
The Gospel that God (Jesus) gave to Paul is doing that.
Nope, not in the last, and if you read entire chapters as opposed to cherry picked verses from tentmaker.com, you would see your own error.
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,022,091 times
Reputation: 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Do you sin? Even being reconciled, do you sin? Do you repent for your post reconciliation sins? Of course, any Christian that is in Christ admits their sins and repents and becomes reconciled to God for transgression to His grace. It is a growth process.
Once you are reconciled what need have you of forgiveness from god? If you sin against your neighbor of yourself then ask them or yourself for forgiveness. You are reconciled.. According to God, Your sins are not held against you and never were. This seems to be a hard concept for some.

Tell me, if your sins are not being held against you and you are reconciled, why do you need to ask god for forgiveness for sins not counted against you?

Is it for gods sake you do this or are you still trying to convince yourself that your sins are not held against you?

Sounds like you can't believe your sins aren't being held against you as a believer. No wonder you cant believe god wouldnt hold an unbelievers sin against them!

I sympathize with you but nothing in your life will change, there is no real value in your witness of grace unless you first claim that grace (that god is not holding your sins against you.

God is love. Love keeps no record of wrongs.
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:54 AM
 
Location: New England
37,299 posts, read 26,388,016 times
Reputation: 2721
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
And how are our sins forgiven? By our personal relationship with Christ. If we don't have Christ then we don't have forgiveness. "Depart from me I knew you not."
If you do not know his forgiveness, you do not know Christ,you have it all back to front, you are consistently changing what you are saying, and all you keep bringing to the table is a bunch of gibberish hogwash,which is death to those who eat what you are saying. I do not believe you know the forgiveness of God or know Jesus Christ. You believe in God you also need to believe on Jesus Christ.
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:54 AM
 
13,142 posts, read 26,760,645 times
Reputation: 13013
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Who is Paul saying to BE YE RECONCILED", the believer or unbeliever?. I am not interested at this moment in time,what the promise of reconciliation is,just a simple believer or unbeliever answer to to my question.
You are twisting God's Word. One must understand both the message and the promise. Reconciliation is OFFERED to ALL (believer and unbeliever), but not ALL will accept reconciliation and be saved through Christ. You have to keep reading past "ALL" to understand the full message of the Gospel which is that man must make a choice to be saved. We either accept or reject Christ and the promise of refonciliation. You can't pick and choose which parts of God's Word you want to believe in. It's a totality, not a Taco Bell menu.
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