Don't believe God can save *everyone*?? Take a hike!! (Christ, verse, salvation)

[Oleg Bach]

Originally Posted by legoman

Akin to the swimmer lying unconscious on the bottom of the pool - he doesn't know he can be saved - should he save himself?

You dive down and pull them up...and unconscious person is not likely to struggle and take you with them - In the alternative - take a destroyed crack head convusling in the street - to you dive into the situtation - take them home - run them a bath - feed them and give them the spare room? NO - that person does not know they can be save ....It would be better to wait for the crack head to bottom out and be laying unconscious - THEN you save them - that's pretty tricky....kind of like waiting till they boarder on death and jump in there in the nick of time...who has such percise judgement and timing? Certainly not me!

By the time a person is close to death..death has already occured..I see the walking dead and souless on a daily basis - they are not saveable.

[legoman]

Originally Posted by saved33

Yes, and a lot of people are led away from the true Lord and Savior through deceptive false teachings.

So it wasn't really their 'free will' that caused them to make that choice - it was the deception.

[legoman]

Originally Posted by Oleg Bach

You dive down and pull them up...and unconscious person is not likely to struggle and take you with them - In the alternative - take a destroyed crack head convusling in the street - to you dive into the situtation - take them home - run them a bath - feed them and give them the spare room? NO - that person does not know they can be save ....It would be better to wait for the crack head to bottom out and be laying unconscious - THEN you save them - that's pretty tricky....kind of like waiting till they boarder on death and jump in there in the nick of time...who has such percise judgement and timing? Certainly not me!

God's timing is better than mans. God does not expect us to save the world. That is what Jesus did.

By the time a person is close to death..death has already occured..I see the walking dead and souless on a daily basis - they are not saveable.

According to you I guess. But God is more powerful than that.

[Oleg Bach]

That got me thinking - a couple of years ago - I looked out my window down on the side walk and say a man sleeping with his head on the cement...I went and got a pillow from my bed - and dropped it down...Looked out later - the man and the pillow were gone - Did that gesture assist in the salvation of this poor fellow? I would say it did move him in that direction - That someone would put a pillow under your head as you lay derelict in the street - Maybe a bit of home and faith in humanity returned to this lost person...maybe they got up to find a better place to sleep and took the clean white pillow with them - and thought as they dosed off - someone cared?

[legoman]

Originally Posted by Oleg Bach

That got me thinking - a couple of years ago - I looked out my window down on the side walk and say a man sleeping with his head on the cement...I went and got a pillow from my bed - and dropped it down...Looked out later - the man and the pillow were gone - Did that gesture assist in the salvation of this poor fellow? I would say it did move him in that direction - That someone would put a pillow under your head as you lay derelict in the street - Maybe a bit of home and faith in humanity returned to this lost person...maybe they got up to find a better place to sleep and took the clean white pillow with them - and thought as they dosed off - someone cared?

God works in mysterious ways...

[saved33]

Originally Posted by Phazelwood

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Looks like I should have underlined the part about some that are not Jesus' sheep.

The passage says He will give eternal life (save) to HIS sheep, but know for certain, as the passage states, that there other 'other sheep' that are NOT His. He is saving HIS sheep.


verse 26
but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.

[Cyber Munchkin]

Originally Posted by legoman

None of these verses preclude the idea that God will save everyone.

I for one am thankful that nothing unclean will enter the Kingdom of God.
And I fully agree that not all will enter the His reign.

But all will still be saved, because that is what scripture says.

Nope not true.... that is what one wants it too say !!

Yet, the truth is reveal to all who read what God's says..... not man... amen !!

Acts 2:37-39
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Rev.3:4-6
4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.
5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
6 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’

Psalm 32:4-6
4 For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me;
My vitality was turned into the drought of summer. Selah
5 I acknowledged my sin to You,
And my iniquity I have not hidden.
I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,”
And You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah
6 For this cause everyone who is godly shall pray to You
In a time when You may be found;

Romans 10:9-10
9. That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


These are those who will perish and not inherit the kingdom of God !!

Revelation 21:27
And nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Cor.6:9-11
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Revelation 21:7-8
7 He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.
8 But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

GOD DOES NOT LIE AND HE DOES NOT LEAD ONE TO BELIEVE A LIE.... but man will deceive and they sure do lie against the truth of God's spoken word !!

[Oleg Bach]

Originally Posted by legoman

God's timing is better than mans. God does not expect us to save the world. That is what Jesus did.

According to you I guess. But God is more powerful than that.

It could be fear - to save some you must be willing to take the chance that you might perish in the process...I like to be Christ like - but not to the extent of dying to save another....sometimes that is what it would take for a someone in human form to be god like - to disappear so another can live - here and the here after...so now that you have tole me that God does not expect US to save the world - I* can put aside my messiah complex and get on with being human? What a waste of time that was playing Jesus...lol..

[saved33]

Originally Posted by legoman

So it wasn't really their 'free will' that caused them to make that choice - it was the deception.

But yet others saw through his deception.

God does not deceive anyone.

All one needs to say to God is
I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief! Mark 9:24

[Jesus said,] All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. (John 6:37)

A promise you can count on.

[Oleg Bach]

Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin

Nope not true.... that is what one wants it too say !!

Yet, the truth is reveal to all who read what God's says..... not man... amen !!

Acts 2:37-39
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Rev.3:4-6
4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.
5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
6 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’

Psalm 32:4-6
4 For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me;
My vitality was turned into the drought of summer. Selah
5 I acknowledged my sin to You,
And my iniquity I have not hidden.
I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,”
And You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah
6 For this cause everyone who is godly shall pray to You
In a time when You may be found;

Romans 10:9-10
9. That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


These are those who will perish and not inherit the kingdom of God !!

Revelation 21:27
And nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Cor.6:9-11
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Revelation 21:7-8
7 He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.
8 But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

GOD DOES NOT LIE AND HE DOES NOT LEAD ONE TO BELIEVE A LIE.... but man will deceive and they sure do lie against the truth of God's spoken word !!

......Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God? - are we talking the occassional gleeful binge - or an every day out of his mind fall down drunk? Got me worried there for a moment...but of course Jesus and the boys were not drunkards..but they were full of bravado - youth and I am sure these young guys got in trouble shooting their mouths off to the teachers of the law and the Roman authorities when they had a bit to much wine...as for drunkards "It is not what enters into the mouth of the man that defiles him..for it passes through the body and into the sewer...It is what comes from the heart and out of the mouth of the man that can defile them" - to para phrase....who ever wrote that drunks go to hell was probably a task master pissed off at a servant that did not show up for work after a party.