Not fully understanding what it means to be a Christian. (Gospel, hell)
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I'm seeking some answers for a situation that I'm in at work.
From the beginning, my parents despite a lot of their shortcomings tried to raise us with teachings from the bible. To be frank, I don't ever recall reading out of the bible word for word, but a few verses. We used to do this since I was little and not as often as say, a regular person going to church. There are issues me and my family have with churches that I'll go into in a bit.
We were raised to always follow your heart, to do the right thing, show compassion to others. I wish I could read the bible and remember every word to use against my religious tormenters, but the longevity of it seems to steer me away or I talk myself down from arguing with someone who just won't understand my point of view.
My problem lies with the people that claim to follow Christ, as it seems a number of born-again Christians have it engraved in their minds that I'm either not saved for following Christ no matter what I do. At work, my friend has over and over again labeled me as a pessimist... my boss, and even my co-worker who's a pastor. There are things in life beyond my control and I usually go with God if it comes to pass, but it appears to me that they have a very hard time accepting that I've accepted Christ long before they even considered it while bad things WILL STILL HAPPEN. My old pastor made it very clear yet I think born-agains just like to preach until someone breaks down in tears.
I lose just about every argument when someone pulls the "Christian Card" and use various verses to guilt me into backing down like a little child. I used to be under the impression that Christians shouldn't judge unless they live their lives in another persons shoes. Instead its constant preach, guilt, preach, guilt, preach, etc.
Thing is... I have nothing to feel guilty about. Sure I've sinned, I'm not striving for perfection or dwelling on shallow status quo. As if they want me to think I'm guilty of something, and I'm getting really sick of it. They use the old "Well you don't read your bible, so you're not following Christ." argument every time I stand up for myself. They assume because I'm not married, or even dating that I'm not following God... not because I made a choice to not pursue. People assume I'm miserable, but it's the Christians I'm dealing with are making me miserable. I've never once questioned the life I'm currently living was wrong or "In God's eyes" until someone brings it up.
I quit going to my last church because all I hear is "tidhe, we need more money, you're not giving enough," while the clergy men take expensive mission trips to Africa and I'm already tight in funds as it is thanks to our wonderful economy. Yet my friend goes on about since I'm not tidhing I cannot receive God's fruits. He's blessed with a family because he's got wealthy parents who do most of his finances for him while get gets to whine about fantasy football and a job that pays more than the average wage because his dad edged him in but I'm not going to call him out on it just yet. More guilt tripping that my motives of not going to church and not tidhing enough are not justified. How can giving 10% to a church help one get closer to God? I know where the money goes and yes, it's to help finance the church and pay for the people that work there. I gave what I could, but guilting me and many others into giving more is where I drew the line with that church. The benefit of working with a pastor is you learn more and more how the church is more of a corporate industry than people are led to believe. Take that for what you want, I'm not being negative, just pointing it out.
My co worker who is also a pastor used to get on this kick too, but has mellowed out when he saw the corporatism involved in the church he's running. He still encourages to tidhe what you can give and is actually very understandable when people fall on hard times. Yet the pastors above him demand him to start getting his numbers up or else.
My boss is the worst of them all, like a living stereotype of a conservative hypocrite. After a few bouts of calling him out he's finally stepped down off his ivory tower.
What also bothers me with Christians I've dealt with my entire life is that they always say "Oh, well God is working on my (insert emotion here.)" To that I look at them and think "Self control also works too." Why do they need God to help them do the right thing when they are perfectly capable of doing it themselves? Weren't we made in God's image or did I miss the memo? What happened to common sense and integrity? Instead we get people who wouldn't talk to me unless it's on a Sunday wearing fancy clothing. There's no accountability with them and I hate that I'm lumping them into a category, but life experience is all I have to go on.
Also, if the bible stories are true that Christ didn't hold the rich with high regard and he hung out with all walks of life. Yet, the Christians I meet wouldn't lift a finger to talk to a minority or their family or someone who isn't middle class. This part infuriates me the most. People with physical illnesses that talk to me in public, I'm not afraid of it, I embrace it yet People. Just. Wont. Stop. Staring. Why? How can people consider themselves followers of Christ yet treat the religion like some kind of fanclub? I feel Christians, not Christianity, have distorted the word of God so much that it's almost unbearable to be around them yet they see me as the unbearable.
I know I can't be completely wrong on that account, maybe I can get someone here that's not so biased like the ones where I live can shed some light on my rant. I'm sorry it's a long post but here it is in a nutshell.
Keep your eyes on Christ, not fallen man. Everything will be perfect on the next earth, even our relationships with others. For now we have to put up with fallen man. 10% for tithe isn't Biblical for a New Testament Christian. Give what you can. If you hear the prosperity gospel of give more for more money here on earth, turn and run away quick.
Good morning Crackpot......(I much rather call you something nicer)...
I was sitting in my very comfortable chair, watching a program I like...felt my eyeslids getting very heavy, and was on my way to bed, when I noticed the light eluminating from my computer in the dark, and realized I had forgotten to turn it off. Just before I clicked the start button to shut her down, something made me suddenly stop and sit down to get one last glance at what was going on here on the board. I don't usually do that, because I know once I get on, it wakes me up, and I might not feel sleepy again for hours...and that ruins a perfectly good nights sleep...something I need.
Then the title of your thread cought my eye immediately..."Not fully understanding what it means to be a Christian...Or so I'm led to believe."
Powerfull statement.
Of course you do not fully understand what it means to be a Christian...you have no role models of a true, born again Christian surrounding you. I'm so sorry for that...but I am not surprised. The false teachings of Modern Day Christianity has been deceiving generation after generation with their lies..doing nothing but leading precious sheep to the slaughter...and you are but another victim whom God wants so much to be enlightened to the truth...the providence of God...you coming here...He sent you to me, for truth...I know it.
You don't know it, but you are in a very good place right now. You're not satisfied, but very troubled with the "status quo"...and that is wonderful! because it is a lie, and what they all try to portray to be is a lie...and your heart knows it...and you are correct in the way that you feel. There is hope for you dear soul...and I mean that from my heart. You are amongst the few who may stand a chance at getting beyond those who falsely call themselves "Christians"...when what they "claim" to be, could not be farther from the truth.
First of all, do not let anyone put a burden of guilt upon you for not tithing. That's a lie! The so called, "pastor" who claims to be born again...isn't...the "church" of mortar and bricks is his "business"...there is no Holy Spirit in it...and you do not need it...nor them...more likely than not, none of them are truly born-again followers of Christ. They could care less if you are financially broken...and if you gave your last dime to them, it would be going to dry, fallow ground, they would not appreciate it, and you would go farther in the hole...and would they be there to pick you up out of the hole and pay your bills for you...?...or buy your groceries for you...? to help you get back on your feet again...? Probably not. Tithing has absolutely nothing to do with anything that even matters pertaining to your salvation...NOTHING!
....by the way...I CAPITALIZE, and underline, and bolden words sometimes because I am naturally a very expressionable person...but I am not angry or yelling...just passionate......just wanted you to know that.
I know you are upset right now...with good reason, I would be too if I were you...and I know you've heard a lot of "crap" about a lot of "stuff" that truly matters to you in your heart...and I think you are truly seeking truth...I feel your heart......
..........I'm going to give you some very basic scriptural truths to chew on...o.k...? Now, there are going to be some on this board who will come back and ridicule me...mock me...and snarl at what I am going to give to you, (they think they're born again too but they still willfully sin, and if you are truly born of God, you do not still willfully sin...you cannot) but do not listen to a word they say...just take what I am about to give you...and on your own time...when it is just you and God, try and test, through His word, what I am saying to you and find out for yourself if I am not telling you the truth...one thing though...you will have to seek for truth in scripture...you will have to get it from God...not other people...they will steer you wrong.
Finding THE! truth of God's word is totally up to you dear soul (I wish I knew your name..."Crackpot" just doesn't seem right at this time), because when you finally do find yourself standing before our King, Jesus, on Judgement Day, you will be standing alone, with no one else to blame but yourself for not knowing and living and abiding in His truth.
I'm only going to give you a little for now...and if you request more from me, I would be so honored to lead you into His truth...you can send me a private message if you like, or ask right out here in the open...I will be here for you.
Let me ask you this...
Can one who is truly born of God continue to commit willfull sin and still receive eternal life?
Answering this question correctly is where the rubber meets the road...or better yet, where you begin a journey ever closer to God Himself.
If you ask this question to your pastor...or anyone of those around you...and they say "Yes."...they are deceived and are not born again, they have not seen or known God, nor does He know them!....run the other way!
...but remember this, everything you are about to read, is speaking to the truly born again soul...none of the following passages are speaking to those who are not TRULY born again....May God bless you with the Spirit of Understanding...the Spirit of Knowledge...and the Spirit of Wisdom...to live it...Amen.
1 John 3:6 states, "Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."...and this is speaking of committing "willfull" sin...which is also called "presumptious" sin, doing something against the Ten Commandments, knowing beforehand that it is wrong, and doing it anyway.
Once someone is truly born again (which does not happen simply because you repeat after a Pastor a few words at an alter, or not), means they have gone through a "process" to a place where they are finally in the will of God for their lives, and have learned what sin is and rely upon the power of the Holy Spirit upon them to be overcomers of sin...and have been inwardly renewed...they have renounced sin...completely...they have truly repented of their sins once and for all time...they have put off the "old man" and put on the "New Man!" in Christ Jesus! and have been filled with the indwelling Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus!
1 John 3:8 states, "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."
verse 9 states, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
verse 10 states, "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
Dear soul, all sin is, is the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4.
The Law is the Ten Commandments.
If you love God, You must keep the Commandments of God...all Ten of them, not forsaking the 4th one..."To REMEMBER to keep the sabbath holy unto God."
John 14:15 Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
verse 16 "And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
verse 17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
...precious promises for those who truly love Him and want to live for Him...and who want to have a right relationship with Him...and receive eternal life with Him.
God Bless you precious person...Do know that I am praying for you.
Love in Christ Jesus,
Verna.
Last edited by Verna Perry; 11-23-2011 at 12:16 AM..
Very honest post. Yeah Church people can be a pain and there are alot of reasons to be skeptical. I would mirror what the people above said about focusing on Christ, but I would also recommend you do find some kind of mentor that you really respect and knows scripture well unless you are unusually independent. If you choose not to get a mentor or follow a particular denomination, be very careful that you don't mix up what you want to be the truth with what is actually the truth...This can be very difficult to distinguish without help because even with the best intentions, we can make God in our own image. Unfortunately, Churches often try to do the same thing.
Good morning Crackpot......(I much rather call you something nicer)...
I was sitting in my very comfortable chair, watching a program I like...felt my eyeslids getting very heavy, and was on my way to bed, when I noticed the light eluminating from my computer in the dark, and realized I had forgotten to turn it off. Just before I clicked the start button to shut her down, something made me suddenly stop and sit down to get one last glance at what was going on here on the board. I don't usually do that, because I know once I get on, it wakes me up, and I might not feel sleepy again for hours...and that ruins a perfectly good nights sleep...something I need.
Then the title of your thread cought my eye immediately..."Not fully understanding what it means to be a Christian...Or so I'm led to believe."
Powerfull statement.
Of course you do not fully understand what it means to be a Christian...you have no role models of a true, born again Christian surrounding you. I'm so sorry for that...but I am not surprised. The false teachings of Modern Day Christianity has been deceiving generation after generation with their lies..doing nothing but leading precious sheep to the slaughter...and you are but another victim whom God wants so much to be enlightened to the truth...the providence of God...you coming here...He sent you to me, for truth...I know it.
You don't know it, but you are in a very good place right now. You're not satisfied, but very troubled with the "status quo"...and that is wonderful! because it is a lie, and what they all try to portray to be is a lie...and your heart knows it...and you are correct in the way that you feel. There is hope for you dear soul...and I mean that from my heart. You are amongst the few who may stand a chance at getting beyond those who falsely call themselves "Christians"...when what they "claim" to be, could not be farther from the truth.
First of all, do not let anyone put a burden of guilt upon you for not tithing. That's a lie! The so called, "pastor" who claims to be born again...isn't...the "church" of mortar and bricks is his "business"...there is no Holy Spirit in it...and you do not need it...nor them...more likely than not, none of them are truly born-again followers of Christ. They could care less if you are financially broken...and if you gave your last dime to them, it would be going to dry, fallow ground, they would not appreciate it, and you would go farther in the hole...and would they be there to pick you up out of the hole and pay your bills for you...?...or buy your groceries for you...? to help you get back on your feet again...? Probably not. Tithing has absolutely nothing to do with anything that even matters pertaining to your salvation...NOTHING!
....by the way...I CAPITALIZE, and underline, and bolden words sometimes because I am naturally a very expressionable person...but I am not angry or yelling...just passionate......just wanted you to know that.
I know you are upset right now...with good reason, I would be too if I were you...and I know you've heard a lot of "crap" about a lot of "stuff" that truly matters to you in your heart...and I think you are truly seeking truth...I feel your heart......
..........I'm going to give you some very basic scriptural truths to chew on...o.k...? Now, there are going to be some on this board who will come back and ridicule me...mock me...and snarl at what I am going to give to you, (they think they're born again too but they still willfully sin, and if you are truly born of God, you do not still willfully sin...you cannot) but do not listen to a word they say...just take what I am about to give you...and on your own time...when it is just you and God, try and test, through His word, what I am saying to you and find out for yourself if I am not telling you the truth...one thing though...you will have to seek for truth in scripture...you will have to get it from God...not other people...they will steer you wrong.
Finding THE! truth of God's word is totally up to you dear soul (I wish I knew your name..."Crackpot" just doesn't seem right at this time), because when you finally do find yourself standing before our King, Jesus, on Judgement Day, you will be standing alone, with no one else to blame but yourself for not knowing and living and abiding in His truth.
I'm only going to give you a little for now...and if you request more from me, I would be so honored to lead you into His truth...you can send me a private message if you like, or ask right out here in the open...I will be here for you.
Let me ask you this...
Can one who is truly born of God continue to commit willfull sin and still receive eternal life?
Answering this question correctly is where the rubber meets the road...or better yet, where you begin a journey ever closer to God Himself.
If you ask this question to your pastor...or anyone of those around you...and they say "Yes."...they are deceived and are not born again, they have not seen or known God, nor does He know them!....run the other way!
...but remember this, everything you are about to read, is speaking to the truly born again soul...none of the following passages are speaking to those who are not TRULY born again....May God bless you with the Spirit of Understanding...the Spirit of Knowledge...and the Spirit of Wisdom...to live it...Amen.
1 John 3:6 states, "Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."...and this is speaking of committing "willfull" sin...which is also called "presumptious" sin, doing something against the Ten Commandments, knowing beforehand that it is wrong, and doing it anyway.
Once someone is truly born again (which does not happen simply because you repeat after a Pastor a few words at an alter, or not), means they have gone through a "process" to a place where they are finally in the will of God for their lives, and have learned what sin is and rely upon the power of the Holy Spirit upon them to be overcomers of sin...and have been inwardly renewed...they have renounced sin...completely...they have truly repented of their sins once and for all time...they have put off the "old man" and put on the "New Man!" in Christ Jesus! and have been filled with the indwelling Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus!
1 John 3:8 states, "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."
verse 9 states, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
verse 10 states, "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
Dear soul, all sin is, is the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4.
The Law is the Ten Commandments.
If you love God, You must keep the Commandments of God...all Ten of them, not forsaking the 4th one..."To REMEMBER to keep the sabbath holy unto God."
John 14:15 Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
verse 16 "And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
verse 17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
...precious promises for those who truly love Him and want to live for Him...and who want to have a right relationship with Him...and receive eternal life with Him.
God Bless you precious person...Do know that I am praying for you.
You're going to lose what faith you have if you keep listening to and arguing with these people who claim to be Christians. And I am one who knows, I am no longer a Christian. It has more to do with the inconsistencies and ridiculousness of the bible more than it does with people but they did play a role over the years.
And don't listen to these people on this board that claim you have to be perfect either......what a load of garbage. If you want to retain your faith in God be done with church, be done with the people at work and follow your own path, whatever it may be. If you're losing faith, it's okay to question things!! These people you spoke of are NOT Christians, they are nothing but hypocrites and will do everything in their power to bring you down and make you feel less than human.
Maybe I'm not the best person to be giving you advice but I would somehow try to tune out these hypocrites and be happy with who you are and what you believe. Calling you "dear one" and long-winded posts are not going to help you either. You need an ally at work, someone who is non-judgmental and you can talk to. If not at work, then at home or on the internet. You obviously have no one to really talk to and listen since you posted here. That's not a bad thing, you will get some really good advice and some of it not so good, you just have to overlook the nonsense.
The bottom line is you have to do what is right FOR YOU, not what someone else tells you is right or tells you is wrong. People can really mess with your head if you let them.....why don't you mess back with them and tell them you're now an atheist? That will scare them off! It's like telling someone you're an axe murderer, they view it the same way. Nah, just kidding but it's probably something I would do to shut them up. You must live in the South or somewhere, it sounds like you're surrounded by hypocritical fundamentalist bible-thumpers. I don't envy you, that's for sure.
Hang in there because jobs are really hard to come by these days. Don't let these idiots screw that up for you. Give some REAL pessimism and tell them you're no longer celebrating Christmas and hang some witches from your cubicle/office/workplace....just kidding again, I worked with a woman one time who did this and I was still a Christian at the time and I thought she was the devil!! I wouldn't go near her.......there ARE things you can do to shut these people up.
If you need someone completely unbiased to talk to, I'm the one. Just send me a private message and we'll talk.
I'm seeking some answers for a situation that I'm in at work.
From the beginning, my parents despite a lot of their shortcomings tried to raise us with teachings from the bible. To be frank, I don't ever recall reading out of the bible word for word, but a few verses. We used to do this since I was little and not as often as say, a regular person going to church. There are issues me and my family have with churches that I'll go into in a bit.
We were raised to always follow your heart, to do the right thing, show compassion to others. I wish I could read the bible and remember every word to use against my religious tormenters, but the longevity of it seems to steer me away or I talk myself down from arguing with someone who just won't understand my point of view.
My problem lies with the people that claim to follow Christ, as it seems a number of born-again Christians have it engraved in their minds that I'm either not saved for following Christ no matter what I do. At work, my friend has over and over again labeled me as a pessimist... my boss, and even my co-worker who's a pastor. There are things in life beyond my control and I usually go with God if it comes to pass, but it appears to me that they have a very hard time accepting that I've accepted Christ long before they even considered it while bad things WILL STILL HAPPEN. My old pastor made it very clear yet I think born-agains just like to preach until someone breaks down in tears.
I lose just about every argument when someone pulls the "Christian Card" and use various verses to guilt me into backing down like a little child. I used to be under the impression that Christians shouldn't judge unless they live their lives in another persons shoes. Instead its constant preach, guilt, preach, guilt, preach, etc.
Thing is... I have nothing to feel guilty about. Sure I've sinned, I'm not striving for perfection or dwelling on shallow status quo. As if they want me to think I'm guilty of something, and I'm getting really sick of it. They use the old "Well you don't read your bible, so you're not following Christ." argument every time I stand up for myself. They assume because I'm not married, or even dating that I'm not following God... not because I made a choice to not pursue. People assume I'm miserable, but it's the Christians I'm dealing with are making me miserable. I've never once questioned the life I'm currently living was wrong or "In God's eyes" until someone brings it up.
I quit going to my last church because all I hear is "tidhe, we need more money, you're not giving enough," while the clergy men take expensive mission trips to Africa and I'm already tight in funds as it is thanks to our wonderful economy. Yet my friend goes on about since I'm not tidhing I cannot receive God's fruits. He's blessed with a family because he's got wealthy parents who do most of his finances for him while get gets to whine about fantasy football and a job that pays more than the average wage because his dad edged him in but I'm not going to call him out on it just yet. More guilt tripping that my motives of not going to church and not tidhing enough are not justified. How can giving 10% to a church help one get closer to God? I know where the money goes and yes, it's to help finance the church and pay for the people that work there. I gave what I could, but guilting me and many others into giving more is where I drew the line with that church. The benefit of working with a pastor is you learn more and more how the church is more of a corporate industry than people are led to believe. Take that for what you want, I'm not being negative, just pointing it out.
My co worker who is also a pastor used to get on this kick too, but has mellowed out when he saw the corporatism involved in the church he's running. He still encourages to tidhe what you can give and is actually very understandable when people fall on hard times. Yet the pastors above him demand him to start getting his numbers up or else.
My boss is the worst of them all, like a living stereotype of a conservative hypocrite. After a few bouts of calling him out he's finally stepped down off his ivory tower.
What also bothers me with Christians I've dealt with my entire life is that they always say "Oh, well God is working on my (insert emotion here.)" To that I look at them and think "Self control also works too." Why do they need God to help them do the right thing when they are perfectly capable of doing it themselves? Weren't we made in God's image or did I miss the memo? What happened to common sense and integrity? Instead we get people who wouldn't talk to me unless it's on a Sunday wearing fancy clothing. There's no accountability with them and I hate that I'm lumping them into a category, but life experience is all I have to go on.
Also, if the bible stories are true that Christ didn't hold the rich with high regard and he hung out with all walks of life. Yet, the Christians I meet wouldn't lift a finger to talk to a minority or their family or someone who isn't middle class. This part infuriates me the most. People with physical illnesses that talk to me in public, I'm not afraid of it, I embrace it yet People. Just. Wont. Stop. Staring. Why? How can people consider themselves followers of Christ yet treat the religion like some kind of fanclub? I feel Christians, not Christianity, have distorted the word of God so much that it's almost unbearable to be around them yet they see me as the unbearable.
I know I can't be completely wrong on that account, maybe I can get someone here that's not so biased like the ones where I live can shed some light on my rant. I'm sorry it's a long post but here it is in a nutshell.
Goodnight.
You understand, but what you are led to believe is that you must conform to others who claim to have the truth and speak with some kind of authority in your life.
I think you are on the right track, keep questioning the things in your life that don't add up to the things that you already know.
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...just wanted you to know that.
