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Old 07-09-2017, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Pilot Point, TX
7,874 posts, read 14,216,123 times
Reputation: 4821

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Warning: this will bust a fundamentalist's theology wide open.

Jesus' words were not instructional for the new covenant believer. They were to show the holiness of God to a people who had lost sight of it.

Firstly, the new covenant started at His death, not His birth - I hope we can agree on this point. The word 'covenant' is identical to the word 'will' - it requires a death.

Next, we see that He was born under the law, in order to redeem those under the law. (Gal. 4-4-5)

With me so far?

The Jews had been - and remained - under the law of Moses when Jesus came. The law had become weak through the flesh (Romans 8:3), and was not accomplishing the goal of showing man His need of a Savior (not God's fault).

So Christ's first act (along with healing all manner of sinners who put their hope in Him) was to lift the law back to its standard of perfection.

Read it for yourself, and see the methodology.

Those then - as today - who see no hope in being perfect in their own ability (the flesh) receive grace and mercy; those who look to the law have fallen from grace. (Gal. 5:4).

Notice it's not sin that causes a falling from grace, but looking to the law for righteousness.
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Old 07-09-2017, 07:38 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,477,899 times
Reputation: 9328
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Warning: this will bust a fundamentalist's theology wide open.

Jesus' words were not instructional for the new covenant believer. They were to show the holiness of God to a people who had lost sight of it.

Firstly, the new covenant started at His death, not His birth - I hope we can agree on this point. The word 'covenant' is identical to the word 'will' - it requires a death.

Next, we see that He was born under the law, in order to redeem those under the law. (Gal. 4-4-5)

With me so far?

The Jews had been - and remained - under the law of Moses when Jesus came. The law had become weak through the flesh (Romans 8:3), and was not accomplishing the goal of showing man His need of a Savior (not God's fault).

So Christ's first act (along with healing all manner of sinners who put their hope in Him) was to lift the law back to its standard of perfection.

Read it for yourself, and see the methodology.

Those then - as today - who see no hope in being perfect in their own ability (the flesh) receive grace and mercy; those who look to the law have fallen from grace. (Gal. 5:4).

Notice it's not sin that causes a falling from grace, but looking to the law for righteousness.
That is because the law was in force until he died. Then he fulfilled it, met its purpose, and it was no longer needed. Jesus had to obey it to fulfill it as no one else could.

KJV Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Fulfill in Greek means: 4914 plhro,w fulfill, make come true, bring about (of Scripture); fill, make full; bring to completion; complete, accomplish, finish; make fully known, proclaim fully (Ro 15.19; Col 1.25); supply fully (Php 4.18, 19); pass. elapse, pass (of time)
That is why the Law was later called tutor to lead us to Christ It showed us he was the one to be obeyed and get us forgiveness. No need for any other sacrifices which the Law required. He was the final or fulfilling sacrifice.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Pilot Point, TX
7,874 posts, read 14,216,123 times
Reputation: 4821
Exactly expat, peace.
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Old 07-09-2017, 09:57 PM
 
Location: US
32,533 posts, read 22,129,562 times
Reputation: 2228
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
That is because the law was in force until he died. Then he fulfilled it, met its purpose, and it was no longer needed. Jesus had to obey it to fulfill it as no one else could.

KJV Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Fulfill in Greek means: 4914 plhro,w fulfill, make come true, bring about (of Scripture); fill, make full; bring to completion; complete, accomplish, finish; make fully known, proclaim fully (Ro 15.19; Col 1.25); supply fully (Php 4.18, 19); pass. elapse, pass (of time)
That is why the Law was later called tutor to lead us to Christ It showed us he was the one to be obeyed and get us forgiveness. No need for any other sacrifices which the Law required. He was the final or fulfilling sacrifice.
Fulfill means to explain correctly...
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Old 07-10-2017, 05:56 AM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,477,899 times
Reputation: 9328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Fulfill means to explain correctly...
Check the Greek. I posted from The United Bible Society Lexicon.

If you fulfill a contact it is finished. Oh Jesus did say that when he died. That is why a new covenant started. New agreement as the old one was finished.
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Old 07-10-2017, 06:04 AM
 
Location: US
32,533 posts, read 22,129,562 times
Reputation: 2228
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Check the Greek. I posted from The United Bible Society Lexicon.

If you fulfill a contact it is finished. Oh Jesus did say that when he died. That is why a new covenant started. New agreement as the old one was finished.
No...They were Jews speaking in Jewish idioms...Do the research...
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Old 07-10-2017, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,968,884 times
Reputation: 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Fulfill means to explain correctly...
So what does it mean when "the Law and the prophets" are "fulfilled" in the two specified commandments?
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Old 07-10-2017, 06:49 AM
 
Location: knoxville, Tn.
4,765 posts, read 2,004,030 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Warning: this will bust a fundamentalist's theology wide open.

Jesus' words were not instructional for the new covenant believer. They were to show the holiness of God to a people who had lost sight of it.

Firstly, the new covenant started at His death, not His birth - I hope we can agree on this point. The word 'covenant' is identical to the word 'will' - it requires a death.

Next, we see that He was born under the law, in order to redeem those under the law. (Gal. 4-4-5)

With me so far?

The Jews had been - and remained - under the law of Moses when Jesus came. The law had become weak through the flesh (Romans 8:3), and was not accomplishing the goal of showing man His need of a Savior (not God's fault).

So Christ's first act (along with healing all manner of sinners who put their hope in Him) was to lift the law back to its standard of perfection.

Read it for yourself, and see the methodology.

Those then - as today - who see no hope in being perfect in their own ability (the flesh) receive grace and mercy; those who look to the law have fallen from grace. (Gal. 5:4).

Notice it's not sin that causes a falling from grace, but looking to the law for righteousness.
That is a pretty good summary, but why do you think it will bust fundamentalism theology wide open. If one does not believe the things you mentioned, they are not a fundamentalists.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Pilot Point, TX
7,874 posts, read 14,216,123 times
Reputation: 4821
"Fundamentalists" in my mind are mainstream, majority holders of incorrect doctrine.

Imo.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:27 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,360 posts, read 26,626,979 times
Reputation: 16454
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
"Fundamentalists" in my mind are mainstream, majority holders of incorrect doctrine.

Imo.
Do you consider the virgin birth of Jesus, the deity of Jesus, and His resurrection to be incorrect doctrines?
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