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There is a clear division on this issue. Some think that the Spirit leads and guides on into all truth appart from the word. Others, IMHO, correctly understand that the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth through the word of God. As Paul writes:
Ro 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. That is to say that God only speaks through HIs word, what is written and established in the Bible. Jesus and the other writers of the New Testament often quoted the scriptures. Why? It is an absolute source of authority and truth. Jesus said, My word is truth. He often said, "I tell you the truth" But for too many take the word of God and twist its meaning to make it say what it doesn't say at all. Others totally ignore clear statements and refuse to listen because of their own preconceived ideas. Others just haven't studied enough, and speak from a lack of knowledge. But if we all sincerely listen to the word, then the Holy Spirit will help us to grow and lead us into all truth.
I always want to ask people who are "led by the Spirit", how do you know the Spirit is speaking to you. How do you know its not the devil?
Problem is also, as some have already mentioned, is that sometimes a teacher has given us ideas that are clearly unbiblical, or just have no basis in scripture. EG. I have asked many Baptists, where do Baptists get the idea of an "age of acountability". I usually get a blank stare. They don't know. But they are sure each person has to make a "decision."
There is a clear division on this issue. Some think that the Spirit leads and guides on into all truth appart from the word. Others, IMHO, correctly understand that the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth through the word of God. As Paul writes:
Ro 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. That is to say that God only speaks through HIs word,
True . . . but the Living Word of God is Jesus Christ and He abides with us. His Holy Spirit of Agape Love is available within our consciousness to guide us to the truth . . . NOT of "precepts and doctrines of men" "written in ink" for "the letter killeth" . . . but of the true Spirit that is supposed to identify us and unite us in "love of God and each other" . . . all else is human vanity and hubris. If you rely only on dead letters "written in ink" . . . you deny that Christ LIVES and abides with us.
Thread after thread on this forum contain the debates of Christian versus Christian. And quite often the tone isn't, "well, I understand it differently"; but instead we see quite often, "I'm right and you are wrong".
Aren't you all supposed to be talking to the same God, listening to the same Spirit, and studying the same "Word of God"? If you are all using the same Spirit to help you understand the scriptures, why do you so often come away with contradictory understandings? And if your argument is only some people are listening to the Spirit, and others just think they are, then why is that so, and how to you know that you are not among those that just think they are? Why do you think it is so difficult for your fellow Christians to find the Spirit and understand the scriptures correctly?
According to Jesus there are only a few people that ever find what the small narrow gate that a person must have the faith to use to become born again of God actually is. And I think the numerical equivalent of, few, is more than likely less than five persons. The apostles whom God elected were taught what this gate is by God revealing it to them. But the persons who make up those few who find it have to dig it out of the Bible guided by the Holy Spirit. No person finds the Holy Spirit as you have assumed. For the Holy Spirit is a gift given only those who have the faith to obey a law that has been added to the law by Jesus' crucifixion in regard to the loss of his life caused by bloodshed. However all contemporay churches teach that Jesus' crucifixion is the direct benefit of him dying in your place, but no person receives the gift of the Holy Spirit upon believing that conjecture is true.
"It is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13
This is the central mistake of organized religion, Hueff . . . the "precepts and doctrines of men." It is NOT about doctrine or dogma or even theology, per se. It is about Spirit . . . the correct Spirit that is to characterize all humanity . . . the Agape Love of Christ, period. Our uniqueness and diversity are supposed to exist (God might get bored with us otherwise). Did you forget or just misunderstand the point of
1 Corinthians 12:4-13King James Version (KJV)
4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Reread the whole chapter over so, as Paul says, "Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.". . . and follow it up with 1 Corinthians 13 to truly understand what makes a Christian . . . NOT "precepts and doctrines of men."
Mystic, you must understand that I am attempting to speak in the language of the majority of Christians when I ask questions of them in this forum. I can see 1st Corinthians 13 from your perspective as well. Please don't read into my word choice, when I am speaking to someone about their beliefs, that those words reflect my personal understanding or beliefs about the topic. I did not forget or misunderstand 1st Corinthians. As I said I can see it from your point of view as well. My follow up questions to the other posters are meant to probe deeper into their train of thought, so I use my understanding of their beliefs to frame my additional questions.
I can tell you firsthand. I was once an adherent to Armstrongism. The problem I discovered was that I didn't go BEYOND what I was being taught by Herbert Armstrong. After all, he could support everything he was teaching with scripture. But he couldnt support all he was teaching in light of ALL scripture on a subject.
The MOST Powerful deception I know is this way. "Christians" are being misled everywhere because they go to church on Sunday's and walk away with nothing more than what is taught in the pulpit - often not getting the real clear picture of what God's way is on a specific subject. If your not going beyond your churches pamplets and ministers comments to assemble all verses and contexts regarding a subject then your very susceptible to being deceived into something that is contrary to God.
Thread after thread on this forum contain the debates of Christian versus Christian. And quite often the tone isn't, "well, I understand it differently"; but instead we see quite often, "I'm right and you are wrong".
Aren't you all supposed to be talking to the same God, listening to the same Spirit, and studying the same "Word of God"? If you are all using the same Spirit to help you understand the scriptures, why do you so often come away with contradictory understandings? And if your argument is only some people are listening to the Spirit, and others just think they are, then why is that so, and how to you know that you are not among those that just think they are? Why do you think it is so difficult for your fellow Christians to find the Spirit and understand the scriptures correctly?
Because everyone who claims to be a Christian is not. Also, it is important to remember that "conflict" - "confusion" - "division" are some of satan's most dangerous weapons. This is what he uses to keep strife going among the Christian community -- and that includes this forum.
The main reason that Christianity is divided is that Christians do not continue in the words and teaching of Jesus and the son of man. To continue in His words you must keep them as He kept the Fathers words by spreading them and speaking them.That is why He said; "what I have done that is what you must do. As the Father sent me that's how I send you."
Example of what Jesus command.
The Lord says this;
Quote:
"They shall be my people, and I will be their God, with faithfulness and justice.
These then are the things you should do: Speak the truth to one another; let there be honesty and peace be in the judgments at your gates.
I will strengthen them in the Lord, and they shall walk in his name.
They shall call upon my name, and I will hear them. I will say, "They are my people," and they shall say, "The Lord is my God."
The Lord shall become king over the whole earth; on that day the Lord shall be the only one, and his name the only one.
For a great King am I, says the Lord of hosts, and my name will be feared among the nations".
Truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.
Truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. Flesh makes flesh, spirit makes spirit. Do not be surprised that I tell you, you must all be born from above.
If only you recognized Gods gift, and who it is that’s speaking to you, you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water. Anyone who drinks the water I give him will never become thirsty the water I give him shall be like a well inside him rising up to provide eternal life.
The work of God is this , having faith in the One he sent.
I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst.
Everything that the Lord gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me,
because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
My teaching is not my own it comes from the one who sent me.
Whoever chooses to do his will shall know about this teaching namely, whether it comes from God or whether I‘m speaking on my own.
When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will realize that I AM, and that I do nothing on my own, but I only say what the Lord has taught me.
For the one who sent me is with me. He has not deserted me, because I always do what pleases him.
The world must know that I love the Father and that I do just as the Father has commanded me.
I do nothing on my own; I judge as I hear, and my judgment is just, because I’m not seeking my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
The Lord who sent me commanded me what to say and speak.
And since I know that his commandment is eternal life, what I say is spoken just as He instructed me.
End of example.
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