Our Lady of Guadalupe The Patron of Mexico (church, believe, scripture)
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Many Mexicans pray mostly to the Virgin of Guadalupe.
Are they saved?
Why not?
You really want to start this? I can see it now....Our Lady is really Ishtar in disguise, the pagan "Queen of Heaven" from the OT, Mary (who Our Lady of Guadalupe is) is a goddess to Catholics, they are worshiping her, talking to the dead is a sin since they can't hear us, you should only pray to God through Jesus Christ, our one and only mediator....yada yada yada...
I am an Italian-American Catholic, but since Our Lady of Guadalupe is the patroness of all the Americas, I, too, sometimes pray to her, not to seek salvation through her, but for help and intercession with her son, Jesus, since to Catholics, the saints are not really dead, but alive in heaven with Christ, and just as a live person on Earth can help and pray for us, so can the live people in heaven.
You really want to start this? I can see it now....Our Lady is really Ishtar in disguise, the pagan "Queen of Heaven" from the OT, Mary (who Our Lady of Guadalupe is) is a goddess to Catholics, they are worshiping her, talking to the dead is a sin since they can't hear us, you should only pray to God through Jesus Christ, our one and only mediator....yada yada yada...
I am an Italian-American Catholic, but dince Our Lady of Gudalupe is the patroness of all the Americas, I, too, sometimes pray to her, not to seek salvation through her, but for help and intercession with her son, Jesus, since to Catholics, the saints are not really dead, but alive in heaven with Christ, and just as a live person on Earth can help and pray for us, so can the live people in heaven.
I actually admire those folks that are so devoted they walk for miles on their knees to see the Virgin.
But, the main question is:
Do we really believe God would not offer salvation to those folks?
I actually admire those folks that are so devoted they walk for miles on their knees to see the Virgin.
But, the main question is:
Do we really believe God would not offer salvation to those folks?
Since I'm a Catholic, you know where I stand on that and what my answer is. Now lets see what non-Catholics, especially fundamentalists and sabbatarians say...
many are very devoted. They even know that it is not found anywhere in the bible but they still have faith in her to listen to their prayers. I think, not sure though, that most of them think the dead are in heaven somewhere, and that this guadalupe is listening to them as a middle man. Salvation is given as a gift for all.
many are very devoted. They even know that it is not found anywhere in the bible but they still have faith in her to listen to their prayers. I think, not sure though, that most of them think the dead are in heaven somewhere, and that this guadalupe is listening to them as a middle man. Salvation is given as a gift for all.
Exactly!
How could devotion to the Mother of Jesus be idolatry?
Many Mexicans pray mostly to the Virgin of Guadalupe.
Are they saved?
Why not?
RESPONSE:
The Virgin of Guadalupe story is a legend, not history. The image, which was taken from Virgin of Guadalupe in Spain (Guadalupe is a Moorish-Spanish name for a river in Spain), was introduced by the Spanish (it's even on Cortes' flag). Check your history.
["The first record of the painting's existence is in 1556, when Archbishop Alonso de Montufar, a Dominican, preached a sermon commending popular devotion to Our Lady of Guadalupe, a painting in the chapel at Tepeyac, where certain miracles had lately been performed."
"Days later he was answered by Francisco de Bustamante, head of the Colony's Franciscans and guardians of the chapel at Tepeyac, who delivered a sermon before the Viceroy expressing his concern that the Archbishop was promoting a superstitious regard for a painting by a native artist, Marcos Cipac de Aquino."
The Juan Diego story was added later.
Incidentally, the image's crown disappeared about 1890. It's believed a new painting was introduced at that time. (Archbishop Monufar had a copy of the image made and sent to King Phillip of Spain. It is housed in a cathedral and it still has it's crown.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 01-24-2012 at 02:10 PM..
Reason: removed brackets
If they have the peace that passes understanding dwelling in their hearts, they are saved. If they are tormented by doubt, they are not saved. I think many people don't understand what "salvation" is.
Note: I'm not Catholic nor do I practice rituals or pray to Mary. But I believe all will be saved because of what Christ has accomplished for us. Some have the assurance of that while in these mortal bodies. Some do not. I consider every person on the planet my "neighbor". Consider the story Jesus told of the Samaritan and the scripture about entertaining angels unaware. What if we all considered those things before every action? It would change the world.
If they have the peace that passes understanding dwelling in their hearts, they are saved. If they are tormented by doubt, they are not saved. I think many people don't understand what "salvation" is.
Exactly!!!!!!!!!!
God knows the heart.
Last edited by Julian658; 01-24-2012 at 05:10 PM..
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