Bizarre Question... Must God punish sin?

[Mikelee81]

Originally Posted by Steph1980

Thank you for your post !!

Thank you for saying thank you.

[ScarletWren]

Originally Posted by Steph1980

Thanks ScarletWren, I do really appreciate the links and posts. I can understand how what I said might have been offensive to people who are trying to help and I am sorry it came across that way! I think I just want people to know that I prefer to interact with different people's opinions than to read articles (probably that goes for most of us, or else we wouldn't be here ). But I do do a lot of reading, from many different perspectives, and I do find much of it helpful. Nothing is as authoratative to me as the Bible of course, and I really value the early writings too. Thank you so much for sharing

Blessings
Steph

You're welcome. You pose some great questions, Steph. It's good to revisit why we believe something.

By the way, Adams did NOT believe the atonement had anything to do with punishment. He has several articles addressing it. But it could be hard to understand where he's coming from if you don't read his foundational articles. Anyway, his views on the atonement are different than what you hear on Sunday mornings. from the pulpit Even if one doesn't quite agree with what he says, he certainly calls attention to the majesty and glory of our God.

peace

[Jerwade]

Originally Posted by Steph1980

Am I the only one?

"Nope."

[Steph1980]

Here is what I have been learning so far from this thread and my own study. If you think I'm off on anything, please let me know where and why you think that...

1. Isaiah 53 clearly shows the undeserved suffering of the Messiah, and that He was made a guilt offering for our sin, but it does not show clearly that Jesus was punished for sin at God's hand in our stead.

2. What did the death of Jesus accomplish? I don't think that can be fully answered in a paragraph, but for a start... the blood of Jesus introduced a new covenant and was a far better sacrifice than that of OT sacrifices, because it was able to purify us inwardly, putting away sin and redeeming us from dead works to serve God. OT sacrifices could only purify people outwardly, had no power to cleanse inwardly, and therefore needed to be offered repeatedly to cover sins. Jesus was the perfect, spotless sacrificial Lamb. Also, Jesus redeemed us from slavery to sin/the devil (Hebrews 2:14).

3. God has always wanted a "broken and contrite heart", and shows His generous mercy to all who repent and seek Him. Nothing that I have found so far in Scripture reveals that God is forced (by His own *laws* or His nature) to punish the sins of those who repent and seek mercy from Him. He doesn't seem to have this major moral dilemma of wanting to forgive sins but needing an outlet for His wrath.

4. God requires us to show mercy to others in the same way He has shown mercy to us. If His definition of mercy involved punishing someone in our stead, then His command to us makes no sense.

5. The book of Hebrews does not even hint at Jesus being punished for our sins. I thought this would be a good place to check for such an idea, because of the theme of the book.

6. The ECF's... and in fact no-one up until Anselm (c. 1100) had any concept of the atonement that involved Jesus being punished for our sins. His death was spoken of as a sacrifice and was in order to ransom us from the power and consequence of sin.

7. God is often described as being slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindness. If God is constrained to punish all sin, doesn't this make Him quick and easy to anger, difficult to appease, and resistant to showing lovingkindness?

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Steph1980

Sorry I am apparently difficult to persuade. I know you think I am being stubborn but I am not trying to be - I just don't see it here... Am I the only one?

Originally Posted by Jerwade

"Nope."

Nope.