Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"God has no God. He is the Supreme. His deity would be destroyed should He acknowledge a superior. No one who has a God is absolute Deity. The Son is God in a restricted, relative sense. His orphan cry, "My God, My God, why didst Thou abandon Me?" (Matt.27:46) could never have come from the God and Father He implored. The Supreme cannot appeal to a higher Power. He could not be left helpless to His enemies by another. He could not suffer the death that followed this heartbroken cry, for He is the life of all that lives. On Golgotha we see God and His Christ in keenest contrast.
Absolute Deity cannot acknowledge or appeal to another God. Yet this is the crowning glory of Christ. He has a God.. We need not be surprised that a glimpse of this relationship should be seldom given. Rather we should be astonished that the veil was ever lifted, so that we may enter into the intimacies of the fellowship between the Father and His Beloved.. The fullest display of Christ's dependence on His God and Father is found in His prayer for the disciples (John 17). He takes a place utterly impossible to Deity in submitting Himself and all His work to His Father. He does not for a moment assume the place of equality. His authority is a gift (17:2). All whom He saves are given Him (17:2). He is carrying out a commission (17:3). He does not glorify Himself, but God (17:4). He does a work, not His own (17:4), and so on, to the end. It is by no means the consultation of two gods "equal in power and glory." It is the humble, dependent petition of a Son and a Servant to One Who is surpassingly supreme..."
God's Truth for Today
"..for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of My own accord,
but He sent Me." [ John 8:42]
"So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me" [John 7:16]
"And the Father Himself, which hath sent Me, hath borne witness of
Me. Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape. [John 5:37]
"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." [Mr 10:18]
"And I do not seekMy own glory; there is One who seeks and judges." [John 8:50]
John 8:54-56 Jesus answered, "If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God';
John 17:3: Now this is *eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
*eternal=aionios
God bless.
The Supreme God - the only true God is the triune God - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
John 17:3: Now this is *eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
In John 17:3 Jesus is speaking from His human nature. Not from His deity.
In referring to the true God, Jesus from the standpoint of His humanity is referring to the only true God in opposition to all false gods. What is said here is in opposition to idols, not to Jesus Himself, who, in 1 John 5:20, is called "the true God and eternal life."
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him (the Father) that is true, and we are in Him (Jesus Christ) that is true, (the word 'even' which is found in some translations is not in the original Greek) in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
The immediate antecedent of the phrase 'This is the true God, and eternal life' is Jesus Christ. John here affirms that Jesus Christ is the true God just as the Father is the true God.
And John said the same thing in John 1:1-4 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2] He was in the beginning with God. 3] All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4] In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
In both John 1:1-4 and 1 John 5:20, John shows that Jesus Christ is the true God and eternal life.
How much more clear can this be?
Disquinish between the predetermined plan of God (Acts 2:23) in which each Person of the trinity performs different functions and which in no way implies that either Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit are inferior to the Father, and the nature or essence of the three Persons of the trinity which unites the three Persons as One God.
Repeated from post #76 regarding the Hypostatic Union and Kenosis of Jesus Christ which is a part of the predetermined plan of God,
Everything that Jesus spoke during His First Advent came from one of three sources. And this explains why there are no contradictions in anything that Jesus said.
1.) Jesus spoke from the standpoint of His deity - John 8:58 'Jesus said to them, ''Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.''
As man, Jesus Christ did not pre-exist Abraham. But as eternal God, He did.
2.) Jesus spoke from the standpoint of His humanity - John 19:28 ''...I am thirsty.''
Deity does not get thirsty, but as a man Jesus could get thirsty.
3.) Jesus spoke from His hypostatic union - from the standpoint of His entire Person - Matthew 11:28 ''Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. John 14:6 ''Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.''
Now the study also addresses the Kenosis of Jesus Christ. Here is an example of Kenosis and hypostatic union. Matthew 4:3 'And the tempter came and said to Him, ''If You are the Son of God, then command that these stones become bread.'' 4] But He answered and said, ''It is written, ''Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.''
Satan tempted Jesus to use His own deity to ease His hunger as a man. But Jesus refused to use His own deity to turn stones to bread. Instead, as per the predetermined plan of God (Acts 2:23), Jesus in His humanity relied on the sustaining ministry of God the Holy Spirit.
Jesus Christ has always been True God, Supreme God in equality with both the Father and the Holy Spirit. In order to provide eternal salvation for man, one of the Persons of the Godhead had to become true humanity and go to the cross. Jesus Christ volunteered in keeping with the concept of the kinsman redeemer, to become a member of the human race and go to the cross. The plan required that Jesus Christ submit to the authority of the First Person of the trinity who is called the Father who is the author of the predetermined plan.
Distinquish between the plan of God and the nature of God.
John 17:3: Now this is *eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent
Jesus makes a clear distinction between the Only True God and Himself who was sent by the Only True God. He was sent by the Only True God and represents the Only True God. Right now, in heaven He is doing the will of the Only True God.
"..for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of My own accord,
but He sent Me." [ John 8:42]
"So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me" [John 7:16]
"And the Father Himself, which hath sent Me, hath borne witness of
Me. Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape. [John 5:37]
"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." [Mr 10:18]
"And I do not seekMy own glory; there is One who seeks and judges." [John 8:50]
John 8:54-56 Jesus answered, "If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God';
1 Cor. 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
1 Corinthians 3:22-23 (English-NIV)
22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas {That is, Peter} or the world or life or death or the present or the future all are yours,
23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God...
John 15:1-2 (English-NIV)
1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.
2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit He prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.
Who is the source of the vine? Who is the vine dependent on just at the branches are dependent on the vine?
2 Samuel 22:47 (English-KJV)
The LORD liveth; and blessed be My rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.
Jesus the Rock, has a God.
John 20:17 (English-NIV)
Jesus said, Do not hold on to Me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to My brothers and tell them,
`I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.
If the Son has a God, then He is not supreme. He always directs us to His Father....He came to reveal Him... The Father has no God, no one above Him.
John 17:3: Now this is *eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
*eternal=aionios
He represents the Only True God and speaks on His behalf. He brings us to the Only True God, as He is the mediator between the Only True God and mankind. He existed in the form of the Only True God and He is the exact representation of His nature.
Hebrews 1: 1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 [a]in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the [c]world. 3 [d]And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and [e]upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
Philippians 2: 1Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any [a]affection and compassion, 2 make my joy complete [b]by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose. 3 Do nothing [c]from [d]selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; 4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Have this attitude [e]in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be [f]grasped, 7 but [g]emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death [h]on a cross.
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-05-2012 at 09:36 AM..
Please note also how brother Mike disregards the scriptures which tell us that Jesus is the image of the invisible God and existed in the form of God Jesus acts on behalf of the True God and reveals Him to us. When we "see" Jesus we "see" the True God. This is how the True God reveals Himself to us and how we come to know Him. Jesus has told us that whoever had seen Him has seen the Father.
John 14
7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”
8 Philip *said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves" (NAS)
John 17:3: Now this is *eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent
*eternal=aionios
Jesus makes a clear distinction between the Only True God and Himself who was sent by the Only True God. He was sent by the Only True God and represents the Only True God. Right now, in heaven He is doing the will of the Only True God.
"..for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of My own accord,
but He sent Me." [ John 8:42]
"So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me" [John 7:16]
"And the Father Himself, which hath sent Me, hath borne witness of
Me. Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape. [John 5:37]
"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." [Mr 10:18]
"And I do not seekMy own glory; there is One who seeks and judges." [John 8:50]
John 8:54-56 Jesus answered, "If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God';
1 Cor. 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
1 Corinthians 3:22-23 (English-NIV)
22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas {That is, Peter} or the world or life or death or the present or the future all are yours,
23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God...
John 15:1-2 (English-NIV)
1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.
2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit He prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.
Who is the source of the vine? Who is the vine dependent on just at the branches are dependent on the vine?
2 Samuel 22:47 (English-KJV)
The LORD liveth; and blessed be My rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.
Jesus the Rock, has a God.
John 20:17 (English-NIV)
Jesus said, Do not hold on to Me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to My brothers and tell them,
`I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.
If the Son has a God, then He is not supreme. He always directs us to His Father....He came to reveal Him... The Father has no God, no one above Him.
John 17:3: Now this is *eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
*eternal=aionios
He represents the Only True God and speaks on His behalf. He brings us to the Only True God, as He is the mediator between the Only True God and mankind. He existed in the form of the Only True God and He is the exact representation of His nature.
Hebrews 1: 1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 [a]in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the [c]world. 3 [d]And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and [e]upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
Philippians 2: 1Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any [a]affection and compassion, 2 make my joy complete [b]by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose. 3 Do nothing [c]from [d]selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; 4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Have this attitude [e]in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be [f]grasped, 7 but [g]emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death [h]on a cross.
The Son, even in heaven now with all of His glory, has a God.
The Father does not have a God.
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-05-2012 at 10:01 AM..
I want readers to notice how Shanna has completely disregarded what I said in post #161 and ignores the fact that 1 John 5:20 states the Jesus Christ is the true God along with the Father. She simply reposts the same verses over and over again without even making an attempt to understand them and relate them to other passages which directly refute her attempts to relegate Jesus Christ to a lesser god than God the Father.
...and I want readers to notice how Shanna is proclaiming the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ concerning Two Yahweh's...One being God the Father, Whom NO ONE has EVER seen nor heard speak...and One being God the Son, WHOM, whenever the LORD spoke, or was seen, it was Him.
I want readers to notice how Shanna has completely disregarded what I said in post #161 and ignores the fact that 1 John 5:20 states the Jesus Christ is the true God along with the Father. She simply reposts the same verses over and over again without even making an attempt to understand them and relate them to other passages which directly refute her attempts to relegate Jesus Christ to a lesser god than God the Father.
You have a lot of patience friend. You keep proclaiming the truth and they just won't listen.
Greetings to the church as given in the scriptures
Romans 1
1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, [a]called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son, who was born of a [b]descendant of David according to the flesh, 4 who was declared the Son of God with power [c]by the resurrection from the dead, according to the [d]Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship [e]to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;
7 to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as [f]saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor. 1
" 1 Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ [a]by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, [b]saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours: 3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ
2 Cor. 1
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,
To the church of God which is at Corinth with all the [a]saints who are throughout Achaia:
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed bethe God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort
Ephesians 1
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus [a]by the will of God,
To the [b]saints who are [c]at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed bethe God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
Colossians 1
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ [a]by the will of God, and Timothy [b]our brother,
2 To the [c]saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father. 3 We give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you
Philippians 1
1 Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus,
To all the [a]saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, [b]including the overseers and deacons: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ
1 Thess. 1
Paul and Silvanus and Timothy,
To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace.
2 Thess.1
1 Paul and Silvanus and Timothy,
To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: 2 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ
1 Timothy 1
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus according to the commandment of God our Savior, and of Christ Jesus, who is our hope,
2 To Timothy, my true child in the faith: Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord
jdaelectro Mike speaks what man has taught him...not God's Word.
God uses men to do his will. You can gain wisdom from man, if you think you can just pick up the Bible and automatically understand everything, then you are mistaken. Mike knows his stuff. What shana is saying is not in line with the context of scripture.
In order to provide eternal salvation for man, one of the Persons of the Godhead had to become true humanity and go to the cross. Jesus Christ volunteered in keeping with the concept of the kinsman redeemer, to become a member of the human race and go to the cross. The plan required that Jesus Christ submit to the authority of the First Person of the trinity who is called the Father who is the author of the predetermined plan.
The scriptures do not say that Jesus, as one of the persons of the Godhead, volunteered to become a human and go to the cross. Jesus tells us that the Father sent Him, that He did not come of His own initiative, that He came to do the Father's will.
"..for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of My own accord,
but He sent Me." [ John 8:42]
"So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me" [John 7:16]
"And the Father Himself, which hath sent Me, hath borne witness of
Me. Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape. [John 5:37]
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me [John 6:38]
Jesus *said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish His work. [John 4:34]
"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." [Mr 10:18]
"And I do not seekMy own glory; there is One who seeks and judges." [John 8:50]
John 8:54-56 Jesus answered, "If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God';
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-05-2012 at 10:45 AM..
God uses men to do his will. You can gain wisdom from man, if you think you can just pick up the Bible and automatically understand everything, then you are mistaken. Mike knows his stuff. What shana is saying is not in line with the context of scripture.
...believe who you will...your choice. God Bless.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jesus acts on behalf of the True God and reveals Him to us. When we "see" Jesus we "see" the True God. This is how the True God reveals Himself to us and how we come to know Him. Jesus has told us that whoever had seen Him has seen the Father.