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I note that you quote me out of context. So tell me.... is abstinence (the most effective form of contraception) contrary to God's law? After all, God commanded us to be fruitful and multiply (except for adders, of course)
Why is quoting the bible on one point ok but ignoring the bible of a very fundamental point not?
I agree with all whose posts I quoted, including you . . . I just excerpted your most poignant comment for brevity.
WesternPilgrim;23002381] 4. The New Testament condemns contraception, which it calls pharmakeia. As I detail in my book The Catholic Perspective on Paul, Saint Paul condemns contraception by the name of "pharmakeia," the word from which we derive our term "pharmacy."
"Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery {pharmakeia}, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal 5:19-21)
Surely, Paul does not mean to condemn those who prescribe herbs for those suffering from gout. Looking back to Saint Paul’s list, we see that the sin of pharamakeia follows sexual sins and the sin of idolatry. These ancient witchdoctors or pharmacists were especially popular in idolatrous cultures, since pagan fertility rites often involved sexual orgies. Obviously, the women involved in these depraved rituals would not wish to bear children to strangers, and so they sought to become sterile or sought to relieve themselves of the responsibility of a child through abortion. The ancient Greek pharmacists could provide drugs to meet these goals.
Hi Pilgrim,
I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you about whether contraception is right or wrong, but I question your definition of "pharmakeia." From the Greek, it sounds like it means the use of drugs when connected to sorcery, magic, spells, and the like. I don't think this has anything to do with prescribing medicine to prevent pregnancy. It seems you are taking a bit of a leap here with your definition. That's jmho. I have posted Strong's definition below.
God Bless,
Katie
[LEFT]pharmakeia: the use of medicine, drugs or spells[/LEFT] Original Word: φαρμακεία, ας, ἡ Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine Transliteration: pharmakeia Phonetic Spelling: (far-mak-i'-ah) Short Definition: magic, sorcery, enchantment Definition: magic, sorcery, enchantment.
[i]5331pharmakeÃa (from pharmakeuō, "administer drugs") – properly, drug-related sorcery, like the practice of magical-arts, etc. (A. T. Robertson). Word Origin
from pharmakeuó (to administer drugs)
Definition
the use of medicine, drugs or spells
I have reread your post twice, and though it is well written. I don't think you have proved your case scripturally, however. Your opinion of why God killed Oman is just that, your opinion. As for the ECF's, they are not inspired writers, and the further away in time from the apostles they move, the less believable they are IMHO.
Maybe someone else can post more scriptures to support this view? I'll do a little more investigating also. If I find anything to contradict what I have said, I will be back to clarify.
Good thread though, and a nice job putting it together.
Hey what about God's command that we be fruitful and multiply? Why do you people pick and choose which verses you believe for any particular argument?
There is debate on this. Some feel the method should only be used to increase the chance of pregnancy not decrease it.
Still one of the arguments against birth-control is that it impairs fertility, generally the point of medicine isn't to impair a healthy body function, and treats pregnancy like a disease. NFP doesn't do that. Your fertility is unimpaired and the ability to get pregnant is still seen as natural.
Granted a problem I've occasionally had, a little, is the issue of condoms and barrier devices. I think maybe you could argue that what they do is equivalent to a spittoon or tissue. Not impairing egg or sperm so much as stopping the exchange of bodily fluids. Still the sexual act is both uniting and procreative in Catholic thought. So possibly condoms or barrier devices could be seen as a "wall against the full union of bodies." There's no "wall" in NFP. Instead on the days you have sex it's the same as it would always be, for those days, there's just days or times you don't do it. (Still I'll hesitantly say that I would think in cases of sex that's already not unitive or procreative, like all sodomy straight or gay, condoms are likely a good idea to prevent disease transmission)
That is why God made them as they are. To frustrate the act (interruptus or barrier) is gravely sinful.
Just curious, you wrote here that to interrupt it as well is contrary to God's will..so let's say a couple got a phone call...or a knock on the door..during the "act"..is that person who is calling or knocking on the door going against God's will since a new soul would have most likely been created that night?
Just curious, you wrote here that to interrupt it as well is contrary to God's will..so let's say a couple got a phone call...or a knock on the door..during the "act"..is that person who is calling or knocking on the door going against God's will since a new soul would have most likely been created that night?
I hadn't thought of that. Somehow I like the image of "I didn't answer the phone because I'm Catholic and we believe it's a sin to be interrupted during marital relations." I can just picture the awkwardness!
Question: This 'multiply the earth' sentiment written in the bible...
Was that Gods sentiment before or after the 'fall' of man?
Was that command or desire given before or after the 'flood'?
Cause seems after man 'fell'...God wasn't so pleased with 'sinful' man and devastated the whole population with 'the flood'...and nearly wiped out man...
And during the subsequent years as God guided Isreal, God didn't seem so happy or pleased with other nations outside of his control, like the Cananites and all those other tribes Isreal was always battling and killing and destroying...
It seems the command 'Go and multiply the earth' was given with the idea that everyone would be holy and rightious, a command given before the fall of man...cause seems after man fell, and most choose not to follow God, that sentiment was no longer applied...
Muslims are multiplying the planet, for sure, and the same with China and India...so is that good?
And is god pleased with that?
Did god mean for everyone to multiply, or just those under his specific command?
So the willful decision not to have sex to prevent a pregnancy is in itself a sin
Moderator cut: delete
Last edited by Miss Blue; 02-20-2012 at 08:47 PM..
Reason: off topic
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[LEFT]pharmakeia: the use of medicine, drugs or spells[/LEFT]
Word Origin
