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Hell is the grave, not an afterlife filled with violence all because the magistrate or judges soul is agitated. I have been upset or disappointed with my children; but not to the point of emotional or physical abuse.
.... This is precisely why I was asking Shana to elaborate on the basis for calling unbelievers "children of God". I think there is lots of evidence in the Bible to suggest that whilst we are all His offspring (He is the source of life), we still need to be adopted into His family in order to truly be considered His children, in this deeper sense.... I think it is fairly blatant that God deals differently with those who are in Jesus Christ.
Just my initial thoughts on this... I need to dig a little more in the Scriptures to see if I'm on the right track with this, but let me know what you think.
Also, another thought... God is described in many ways in the Bible, not just Father. He is also called righteous Judge, and other descriptors. I think we need to be careful not to overemphasize one aspect of the way in which God deals with mankind, to the exclusion of others....
John 3:36 --- can someone explain how this verse fits in with the UR understanding?
It talks about how those who don't believe in the Son of God will not see life, but God's wrath abides on them.
abide (meno) 1) to remain, abide a) in reference to place 1) to sojourn, tarry 2) not to depart a) to continue to be present b) to be held, kept, continually b) in reference to time 1) to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure a) of persons, to survive, live c) in reference to state or condition 1) to remain as one, not to become another or different 2) to wait for, await one
This Scripture doesn't really suggest that God's wrath has an end goal here of correction/purification.... what is your take?
.... This is precisely why I was asking Shana to elaborate on the basis for calling unbelievers "children of God". I think there is lots of evidence in the Bible to suggest that whilst we are all His offspring (He is the source of life), we still need to be adopted into His family in order to truly be considered His children, in this deeper sense.... I think it is fairly blatant that God deals differently with those who are in Jesus Christ.
Self-congratulatory nonsense by those who think they curry favor with God by believing. What a shallow and superficial God they must think our God is. Christ saved us ALL from eternal separation from God . . . but it is our character and state of mind accumulated over our lifetime that will determine how much "refinement" we will need. If we follow Christ's commands to "love God and each other" and repent when we don't . . . we will have a more favorable position upon our death and rebirth as Spirit. But that is it. The differences are in sanctification . . . NOT salvation.
John 3:36 --- can someone explain how this verse fits in with the UR understanding?
It talks about how those who don't believe in the Son of God will not see life, but God's wrath abides on them.
abide (meno) 1) to remain, abide a) in reference to place 1) to sojourn, tarry 2) not to depart a) to continue to be present b) to be held, kept, continually b) in reference to time 1) to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure a) of persons, to survive, live c) in reference to state or condition 1) to remain as one, not to become another or different 2) to wait for, await one
This Scripture doesn't really suggest that God's wrath has an end goal here of correction/purification.... what is your take?
It is a reference to time, not that which is eternal.
He who is believing the Son has life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.
John 3:36 --- can someone explain how this verse fits in with the UR understanding?
It talks about how those who don't believe in the Son of God will not see life, but God's wrath abides on them.
This Scripture doesn't really suggest that God's wrath has an end goal here of correction/purification.... what is your take?
ANY violation of God's laws (ANY of them) will have negative consequences. That is what the wrath is that our psychologically ignorant ancestors referred to because God does NOT get angry or experience indignation. Those again are human psychological weaknesses and God has NONE. If you violate God's law of gravity you will experience negative consequences . . . God's wrath. If you do not believe Jesus and violate His commands to "love God and each other" (notice I said believe Him . . . not IN Him) . . . there will be negative consequences . . . God's wrath. Being unloving produces negative consequences and we either repent or suffer them . . . but losing the salvation that Christ achieved is NOT one of them. We have NOTHING to do with our salvation. It is ALL Christ.
Hi Shana, thanks for your insight. Can you please let me know why you believe God is the loving Father of unbelievers and why you believe He deals with unbelievers as children? I'm just curious as to where this idea comes from Scripturally... I'm not disagreeing, just want to know your basis for this.
Thanks!
Steph
The scriptures say that Christ died for the ungodly. Everyone is an unbeliever until God delivers their soul from the kingdom of darkness into the glorious kingdom of Light. There must be something within us that God thinks is worth loving. I believe it is the seed of Christ in us that he loves and cultivates with his Spirit and brings about the new birth at the appropriate time. God is the gardener. God brings the increase. He is the Lord of the harvest. He has power over the clay. God is sovereign. God makes alive. God does all these things. We do not have the power to do these things apart from his Spirit working through us. We are earthly vessels. All things belong to God. I realize you asked Shana, but I just needed to give you an answer to your question.
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