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Apeitheo (translated "not believe" or "not obey" in John 3:36, depending on translation)
1) not to allow one's self to be persuaded
a) to refuse or withhold belief
b) to refuse belief and obedience
2) not to comply with
I mean what that says.
Nope, not good enough.
Did you ever refuse to believe? Oops, no life for you, because God's wrath abides on you.
Did you ever refuse to be obedient? Oops, no life for you, because God's wrath abides on you.
etc.
Are you getting the picture?
God's wrath can only abide UNTIL one comes to know God. That is what John 3:36 MUST mean - any other interpretation renders it meaningless rhetoric to say "I'm saved but you won't see life ever because you don't believe", all the while forgetting you yourself once did not believe.
Did you ever refuse to believe? Oops, no life for you, because God's wrath abides on you.
Did you ever refuse to be obedient? Oops, no life for you, because God's wrath abides on you.
etc.
Are you getting the picture?
God's wrath can only abide UNTIL one comes to know God. That is what John 3:36 MUST mean - any other interpretation renders it meaningless rhetoric to say "I'm saved but you won't see life ever because you don't believe", all the while forgetting you yourself once did not believe.
God's wrath abides UNLESS one comes to know God. Many will persist in unbelief and refuse to obey.
By the way, it isn't that "you won't see life ever because you don't believe", it is that "you won't see life ever if you don't believe".
Do you think John the baptist thought it was obvious to his listeners that he meant they had to believe/obey during this life? Or do you think that he would have assumed his listeners understood that believing/obeying wasn't an opportunity limited to this life only?
Isaiah 45 (NAS)
"22 “Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23 “I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
24 “They will say of Me, ‘Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.’
Men will come to Him,
And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.
25 “In the LORD all the offspring of Israel
Will be justified and will glory.”
This tells me that no one will abide in unbelief forever or refuse Him forever.
God's wrath abides UNLESS one comes to know God. Many will persist in unbelief and refuse to obey.
By the way, it isn't that "you won't see life ever because you don't believe", it is that "you won't see life ever if you don't believe".
Ah, then I refer you to Shana's post just above. All will believe.
Quote:
Do you think John the baptist thought it was obvious to his listeners that he meant they had to believe/obey during this life? Or do you think that he would have assumed his listeners understood that believing/obeying wasn't an opportunity limited to this life only?
I'm quite sure John was talking to people about right now, in his day and age (present tense). He was talking about people in this earthly life we have right now. Many people don't believe and they don't see life, God's wrath abides on them.
Again, there is no conflict with a message of universal reconcilation.
These absurd issues are born of the delusion that Beliefs are a Choice.
These absurd issues are born of the delusion that Beliefs are a Choice and that it somehow matters to God what you intellectually believe. Simple question . . . what is it about belief that distinguishes among us in any significant way? What does it achieve? IOW . . . why does God want it badly enough to torture anyone for eternity for not believing? Further . . . is there any other way to achieve what God wants from this belief? These are serious and sincere questions I would like anyone to answer.
Ah, then I refer you to Shana's post just above. All will believe.
I'm quite sure John was talking to people about right now, in his day and age (present tense). He was talking about people in this earthly life we have right now. Many people don't believe and they don't see life, God's wrath abides on them.
Again, there is no conflict with a message of universal reconcilation.
Does "life age-during" always and only refer to this present life, according to UR?
These absurd issues are born of the delusion that Beliefs are a Choice and that it somehow matters to God what you intellectually believe. Simple question . . . what is it about belief that distinguishes among us in any significant way? What does it achieve? IOW . . . why does God want it badly enough to torture anyone for eternity for not believing? Further . . . is there any other way to achieve what God wants from this belief? These are serious and sincere questions I would like anyone to answer.
Good points. Belief in Christ (ie. simple belief He existed) or Believe Christ (understand what His message was ie. LOVE - love God and each other)
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All will confess that Jesus is Lord to glory of God the Father. God bless and peace.
These absurd issues are born of the delusion that Beliefs are a Choice.
