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Luk 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luk 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Luk 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luk 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luk 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
Is not Jesus telling us here by this parable that if we bring forth Fruit that we will not suffer such undesired calamity?
How does this fit with Paul being cast into the sea several times and our Apostles becoming martyrs?
Luk 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luk 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Luk 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luk 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luk 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
Is not Jesus telling us here by this parable that if we bring forth Fruit that we will not suffer such undesired calamity?
How does this fit with Paul being cast into the sea several times and our Apostles becoming martyrs?
Yes, that is very interesting.
In Job, it is told how God the Father didn't allow Satan to harm Job physically. Job WAS sore vexed and plagued with problems however UNTIL he became fully engaged in service to others. Once he became perfect...it seems his problems all went away. ?
In Isaiah, it seems to state that the Messiah will be protected by angels, and wouldn't even "dash his foot against a stone" as even Satan said to Jesus up on the mountain. But yet other passages from Isaiah have been taken to mean that Messiah WILL in fact be "pierced."
But I think the above passages you listed from Luke are metaphorical for harm to the Spirit, and not the body.
Sounds like the Galilaeans and the eighteen men who fell from the tower who could be sinners , where probably a news event of the time of Jesus and were used because people felt sorry for their deaths , so Jesus said if they did not repent they would perish......But the worker or farmer cutting his crop could be a metaphor for Jesus putting His best Spirit in a believer , and the believer could not develop the spirit of the Lord and become stagnate and fruit could not be started ....so the farmer discarded it
Luk 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luk 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Luk 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luk 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luk 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
Is not Jesus telling us here by this parable that if we bring forth Fruit that we will not suffer such undesired calamity?
How does this fit with Paul being cast into the sea several times and our Apostles becoming martyrs?
"Repentance is a requirement for Salvation. Repentance is associated with producing Fruit. God is seeking Fruit for his purposes. We can't produce fruit without Faith (Romans 9).
"How does this fit with Paul being cast into the sea several times and our Apostles becoming martyrs?"
If anything, the Apostles being martyrs will produce fruit to their accounts. So they were not destroyed because they did not produce fruit. The Lord tells Peter how he will die in a way which will Glorify God. Job was not put under trial because he deserved it. He was put under trial to test his faith.
Dying "early" in life or suffering is not necessarily God punishing us although it can be. Very well he is testing our faithfulness. God's children "shall have tribulation" as Jesus puts it. He says be of good cheer though, he's overcome the world.
The book of Job gives us insight that God allows Satan to work us at times. It should give us comfort that everything is father filtered and he will not let us be tempted above what we can handle.
In Luke 13, Jesus is teaching about the difference between “goodness” (by human standards) and God’s “righteousness” imputed by grace to believers who trust Christ for life, truth and His righteousness.
The follow-on parable (Luke 13:6-8) of the unproductive fig tree (‘cut down and cast away’) similarly illustrates that the fig tree (people) may look good and have nice green leaves … but, only wastes dirt (or people – air) apart from the life and fruit God creates.
Jesus is warning against the false notion that the lost, Christ-rejecting world is “filled with good people whom God should be pleased to have in heaven.” God does not “make bad things happen to ‘good’ people, BUT, “time and chance happen to ALL.” (both the persecuted Galileans and the eighteen crushed to death by the tower of Siloam). – The statement that “the latter “were no worse sinners than anyone else!” ---says, “ALL must come to God by the same Way (Jesus Christ) … and nobody will get there by “being good.”
This is emphasized by the core message (repeated before and after (13:3, 5) the example (13:4): “…But unless you repent, you too will all perish.” The antecedent to this is, “IF you repent and find Grace and forgiveness in Christ, you will NOT perish” (but, if you are depending on being “good enough” – you will never make it).
In Job, it is told how God the Father didn't allow Satan to harm Job physically. Job WAS sore vexed and plagued with problems however UNTIL he became fully engaged in service to others. Once he became perfect...it seems his problems all went away. ?
In Isaiah, it seems to state that the Messiah will be protected by angels, and wouldn't even "dash his foot against a stone" as even Satan said to Jesus up on the mountain. But yet other passages from Isaiah have been taken to mean that Messiah WILL in fact be "pierced."
But I think the above passages you listed from Luke are metaphorical for harm to the Spirit, and not the body.
Yes, I think you see what I see. There is a level of divine perfection that is given to that attribute once developed. In other words, it seems the wrath is only necessary to bring about the compliance with God's Spirit. And in many situations, it is decided that the person will bear no fruit and thus is then destroyed outright.
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