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Old 03-05-2012, 03:22 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
27,734 posts, read 20,443,639 times
Reputation: 12344

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The purpose of this post is to provide a study on the reliability of the Bible. This study took place over the course of eight one hour Bible classes by Dr. Dean who is a much sought after Bible teacher both in the United States and overseas.

Class one: The Claims of the Bible.

Class two: Validation of Biblical Claims.

Class three: Archaeology and the Old Testament.

Class four: Tyre: Prophecy Fulfilled.

Class five: Incredible Predictions of the Bible.

Class six: How we Got the Old Testament.

Class seven: How we Got the New Testament.

Class eight: How We Got our English Bible.

If you're interested, just click and listen.

DeanBible.org: 2004 - Can We Trust The Bible
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:33 PM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,345,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The purpose of this post is to provide a study on the reliability of the Bible. This study took place over the course of eight one hour Bible classes by Dr. Dean who is a much sought after Bible teacher both in the United States and overseas.

Class one: The Claims of the Bible.

Class two: Validation of Biblical Claims.

Class three: Archaeology and the Old Testament.

Class four: Tyre: Prophecy Fulfilled.

Class five: Incredible Predictions of the Bible.
Ÿ
Class six: How we Got the Old Testament.

Class seven: How we Got the New Testament.

Class eight: How We Got our English Bible.

If you're interested, just click and listen.

DeanBible.org: 2004 - Can We Trust The Bible
Mike,

This looks really good!

I am continually shocked by how many do not trust the Bible. Satan's MO has always been to attack the word. Without a strong conviction that the Bible is both inspired and infallible, then we leave ourselves wide open to every wind of doctrine that comes our way. The sword of the Spirit is our protection, our armor, against our adversary.

Thank you for starting this thread. Maybe it will help someone to trust that the Bible in its entirety is without a doubt God's inspired/infallible message to us.

God Bless,

Katie
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:51 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
27,734 posts, read 20,443,639 times
Reputation: 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Mike,

This looks really good!

I am continually shocked by how many do not trust the Bible. Satan's MO has always been to attack the word. Without a strong conviction that the Bible is both inspired and infallible, then we leave ourselves wide open to every wind of doctrine that comes our way. The sword of the Spirit is our protection, our armor, against our adversary.

Thank you for starting this thread. Maybe it will help someone to trust that the Bible in its entirety is without a doubt God's inspired/infallible message to us.

God Bless,

Katie
Hi Katie.

You're welcome. I could have sworn that you asked me if this class was online, and so I answered that below. You must have removed that question. But I'll leave the answer.

Dr. Dean is pastor of West Houston Bible Church, although when he gave this class he may still have been pastor of Preston City Bible Church in Preston, Connecticut. He makes his classes to his congregation available online.


Yes. It is good and very informative.

Truthfully, since I don't usually get any feedback, I don't know if people bother to go into these kinds of classes that I post on the forum from time to time. Hopefully some will go into these particular Bible classes/lessons.
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:10 PM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,345,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Hi Katie.

You're welcome. I could have sworn that you asked me if this class was online, and so I answered that below. You must have removed that question. But I'll leave the answer.

Dr. Dean is pastor of West Houston Bible Church, although when he gave this class he may still have been pastor of Preston City Bible Church in Preston, Connecticut. He makes his classes to his congregation available online.


Yes. It is good and very informative.

Truthfully, since I don't usually get any feedback, I don't know if people bother to go into these kinds of classes that I post on the forum from time to time. Hopefully some will go into these particular Bible classes/lessons.
Yes I asked the question before I looked at the link. So I went in and edited as quick as I could, but not quick enough.

This is so ironic. I live about 10 minutes away from Preston. I think I know which church he was with. What a small world!

I will definitely be listening to these lessons. I'll let you know what I think.

Katie
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:00 PM
 
52,979 posts, read 31,942,570 times
Reputation: 6763
Trustworthy and infallible are NOT synomyms. They are two very different things. The Bible is trustworthy but NOT infallible. We can trust that god inspired the writers to record their interpretations of the inspirations they received using their beliefs about God, knowledge of the world, superstitions, cultural traditions, idioms, etc. Our task is to spiritually discern the truth in their efforts.
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:25 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
27,734 posts, read 20,443,639 times
Reputation: 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Trustworthy and infallible are NOT synomyms. They are two very different things. The Bible is trustworthy but NOT infallible. We can trust that god inspired the writers to record their interpretations of the inspirations they received using their beliefs about God, knowledge of the world, superstitions, cultural traditions, idioms, etc. Our task is to spiritually discern the truth in their efforts.
As is shown in the lessons, the Bible is infallible. If you have no intention of listening to the classes than don't comment. I posted this for people who are interested in what Dr. Dean teaches on the subject. Not to start another debate with people who are antagonistic towards the word of God.
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:33 PM
 
52,979 posts, read 31,942,570 times
Reputation: 6763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
As is shown in the lessons, the Bible is infallible. If you have no intention of listening to the classes than don't comment. I posted this for people who are interested in what Dr. Dean teaches on the subject. Not to start another debate with people who are antagonistic towards the word of God.
I will defend against the "precepts and doctrines of men" as long as the Lord keeps me here to witness to the truth. You are a prime proselytizer for the "precepts and doctrines of men" . . . not the Biblical truth. I will not desist. I have no antagonizism to the word of God . . . but I have for the "precepts and doctrines of men" that seek to pretend to be the word of God.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,221 posts, read 12,665,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I posted this for people who are interested in what Dr. Dean teaches on the subject.
Premises based on assumptions to support conclusions, do not create infallibility.

Last edited by Jerwade; 03-05-2012 at 11:45 PM..
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:36 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
49,779 posts, read 15,973,441 times
Reputation: 5789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The purpose of this post is to provide a study on the reliability of the Bible. This study took place over the course of eight one hour Bible classes by Dr. Dean who is a much sought after Bible teacher both in the United States and overseas.

Class one: The Claims of the Bible.

Class two: Validation of Biblical Claims.

Class three: Archaeology and the Old Testament.

Class four: Tyre: Prophecy Fulfilled.

Class five: Incredible Predictions of the Bible.

Class six: How we Got the Old Testament.

Class seven: How we Got the New Testament.

Class eight: How We Got our English Bible.

If you're interested, just click and listen.

DeanBible.org: 2004 - Can We Trust The Bible
Maybe I'll just look in and put the other view - that while the bible does contain (as one would expect) commentary on historical events such as the Assyrian invasion, Babylonian exile and Roman occupation of Judea, it is actually not reliable.

For one thing, the prophecy of Tyre did not pan out. True, it vaguely remembers the attack by Nebuchadnezzar and recounts the siege by Alexander and the causeway of rubbe he built to attack the Island, but it did not become deserted.

I'll quote from my notes, if I may.

"vs 14 predicts that it would become a place of fishermen spreading their nets and (7) the site would never be rebuilt.
Nebuchadnezzar certainly attacked Tyre but the prophecy only works in respect of mainland Tyre. The king never took the island; any despoiling of riches related only to what the Tyrians had not been able to take to the island. Also, Tyre was far from destroyed and never rebuilt. I read that Tyre continued as major trading entity. The prophecy only really works in respect of Nebuchadnezzar as the first of 'many nations' that attacked Tyre.
Does the prophecy become fulfilled in the case of Alexander's attack in 332 B.C.? As the next of the 'many nations' that attack Tyre, Alexander takes 'mainland Tyre' and uses the rubble to make a causeway out to 'Island Tyre' to which he laid seige with engines and a navy. The city was taken. Whether the mainland city was scraped down to the rock and the debris dumped into the sea to make the causeway, that was not the end of Tyre. After Alexander's death, a successor was investing Tyre - unsuccessfully.
Jerome wrote of Tyre as having become once more one of the richest and most splendid trading city of the east. That is a far cry from never being rebuilt and a place where there was nothing but fishermen spreading their nets. Tyre was again under siege in the Crusades. Was it the same Tyre? A recent satellite map shows that the causeway has been built up on north and south by drifting sand and forms a triangular peninsula with 'island Tyre' at the tip. Present Tyre occupies the area of 'mainland Tyre'. Called 'Sur' today, it certainly appears to be a continuation up to the present day of a city that has never needed to be rebuilt, as it has never really ceased to exist. It is an important port; during the recent Lebanon war, it was from here that food was ferried in by ship to the starving city and escapees were ferried out. 'Island' Tyre also appears to be built up apart from the south part. It is certainly much more than just a place to spread nets.
The prophecy does work, after a fashion, but the prophecy about never being rebuilt and apparently ceasing to exist is certainly incorrect. The argument that modern 'Tyre' is unimportant and in the wrong place does not seem to be correct either. "

The explanation which I suggest fits the facts is that some prophet was writing at a time when Tyre had been destroyed but not yet rebuilt; the causeway was deserted and a place to spread nets. It hadn't yet become part of a land mass generally rebuilt and prospering as a sea- port.

We can date the 'prphecy' as retrospective history, as we can also with the prophecies of Babylon and Daniel. In fact we can date them almost to the year 539, recording the capture of Babylon but predicting an abandonment which never happened and Daniel 167 BC with the attack of Antoichus on Ptolemaic Egypt The 'prohecy' up to then is meticulous but after that date becomes speculative and vague and does not accord with history.

And don't get me started on the Gospels.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:32 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
27,734 posts, read 20,443,639 times
Reputation: 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Maybe I'll just look in and put the other view - that while the bible does contain (as one would expect) commentary on historical events such as the Assyrian invasion, Babylonian exile and Roman occupation of Judea, it is actually not reliable.

For one thing, the prophecy of Tyre did not pan out. True, it vaguely remembers the attack by Nebuchadnezzar and recounts the siege by Alexander and the causeway of rubbe he built to attack the Island, but it did not become deserted.

I'll quote from my notes, if I may.

"vs 14 predicts that it would become a place of fishermen spreading their nets and (7) the site would never be rebuilt.
Nebuchadnezzar certainly attacked Tyre but the prophecy only works in respect of mainland Tyre. The king never took the island; any despoiling of riches related only to what the Tyrians had not been able to take to the island. Also, Tyre was far from destroyed and never rebuilt. I read that Tyre continued as major trading entity. The prophecy only really works in respect of Nebuchadnezzar as the first of 'many nations' that attacked Tyre.
Does the prophecy become fulfilled in the case of Alexander's attack in 332 B.C.? As the next of the 'many nations' that attack Tyre, Alexander takes 'mainland Tyre' and uses the rubble to make a causeway out to 'Island Tyre' to which he laid seige with engines and a navy. The city was taken. Whether the mainland city was scraped down to the rock and the debris dumped into the sea to make the causeway, that was not the end of Tyre. After Alexander's death, a successor was investing Tyre - unsuccessfully.
Jerome wrote of Tyre as having become once more one of the richest and most splendid trading city of the east. That is a far cry from never being rebuilt and a place where there was nothing but fishermen spreading their nets. Tyre was again under siege in the Crusades. Was it the same Tyre? A recent satellite map shows that the causeway has been built up on north and south by drifting sand and forms a triangular peninsula with 'island Tyre' at the tip. Present Tyre occupies the area of 'mainland Tyre'. Called 'Sur' today, it certainly appears to be a continuation up to the present day of a city that has never needed to be rebuilt, as it has never really ceased to exist. It is an important port; during the recent Lebanon war, it was from here that food was ferried in by ship to the starving city and escapees were ferried out. 'Island' Tyre also appears to be built up apart from the south part. It is certainly much more than just a place to spread nets.
The prophecy does work, after a fashion, but the prophecy about never being rebuilt and apparently ceasing to exist is certainly incorrect. The argument that modern 'Tyre' is unimportant and in the wrong place does not seem to be correct either. "

The explanation which I suggest fits the facts is that some prophet was writing at a time when Tyre had been destroyed but not yet rebuilt; the causeway was deserted and a place to spread nets. It hadn't yet become part of a land mass generally rebuilt and prospering as a sea- port.

We can date the 'prphecy' as retrospective history, as we can also with the prophecies of Babylon and Daniel. In fact we can date them almost to the year 539, recording the capture of Babylon but predicting an abandonment which never happened and Daniel 167 BC with the attack of Antoichus on Ptolemaic Egypt The 'prohecy' up to then is meticulous but after that date becomes speculative and vague and does not accord with history.

And don't get me started on the Gospels.
The prophecy of Tyre was fulfilled perfectly. The people and the modern city of Tyre have nothing to do with the ancient Phoenician people and the ancient city of Tyre to whom the prophecy was addressed.

I went into great detail concerning the prophcy of Tyre with another skeptic who refused to acknowledge the fulfillment of the prophecy. He refused to open his eyes, as you also do. I'll not debate the prophecy's fulfullment here.


Again, I provided the classes of Dr. Dean concerning the reliability of the Bible for those who are interested in what he says. Not to open a debate with skeptics.
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