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I agree. The word/logos at v 14 is a person. However, I don’t perceive the word/logos at v 1 to be a person.
The Greek word for “word” is logos. Logos in its strictest meaning refers to the inner thought which is expressed outwardly in words.
Excerpted from Vine’s Expository Dictionary:
In the beginning ‘god’ had this 'logos' in Joh 1:1. Katie our thoughts and ideas are fundamentally us. As Solomon said, “As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he…” So as ‘god’ thinkenth, so is ‘he’. Therefore god’s 'logos' or thinking is ‘god’: "the word/logos was God"
RESPONSE:
From Wikipedia:
"Philo (20 BC – 50 AD), a Hellenized Jew, used the term Logos to mean an intermediary divine being, or demiurge Philo followed the Platonic distinction between imperfect matter and perfect idea, and therefore intermediary beings were necessary to bridge the enormous gap between God and the material world. The Logos was the highest of these intermediary beings, and was called by Philo "the first-born of God." Philo also wrote that "the Logos of the living God is the bond of everything, holding all things together and binding all the parts, and prevents them from being dissolved and separated."
As Greek tought was incorporated into Christian theology, it is understandable that both Paul, a Hellanistic Jew, and the writers of John's gospel (drawing from an earlier writing)would include the concept of the 'Logos" (or "Word" ) as the intermediary being. It can be argued that John's prologue is gnostic in origin.
From the New World Encyclopedia
"This origin and action resemble a gnostic aeon (emanation from God) being sent from the pleroma (region of light) to give humans the knowledge they need to ascend to the pleroma themselves. John's denigration of the flesh, as opposed to the spirit, is a classic Gnostic theme."
Last edited by ancient warrior; 03-15-2012 at 10:31 AM..
"Philo (20 BC – 50 AD), a Hellenized Jew, used the term Logos to mean an intermediary divine being, or demiurge Philo followed the Platonic distinction between imperfect matter and perfect idea, and therefore intermediary beings were necessary to bridge the enormous gap between God and the material world. The Logos was the highest of these intermediary beings, and was called by Philo "the first-born of God." Philo also wrote that "the Logos of the living God is the bond of everything, holding all things together and binding all the parts, and prevents them from being dissolved and separated."
As Greek tought was incorporated into Christian theology, it is understandable that both Paul, a Hellanistic Jew, and the writers of John's gospel (drawing from an earlier writing)would include the concept of the 'Logos" (or "Word" ) as the intermediary being. It can be argued that John's prologue is gnostic in origin.
From the New World Encyclopedia
"This origin and action resemble a gnostic aeon (emanation from God) being sent from the pleroma (region of light) to give humans the knowledge they need to ascend to the pleroma themselves. John's denigration of the flesh, as opposed to the spirit, is a classic Gnostic theme."
That means that what defines God . . . His Holy Spirit (Consciousness) . . . was incarnated into a human body and brain (intermediary state) to make God accessible to us. First in the physical presence of Christ on the earth . . . and then permanently within the collective human consciousness upon His physical death and rebirth as Spirit (Comforter). The trinity is the result of the "precepts and doctrines of men" floundering in ignorance about what consciousness is and what defines a person. There is no mystery once consciousness is understood and recognized as the source of personhood.
I agree. The word/logos at v 14 is a person. However, I don’t perceive the word/logos at v 1 to be a person.
The Greek word for “word” is logos. Logos in its strictest meaning refers to the inner thought which is expressed outwardly in words.
Excerpted from Vine’s Expository Dictionary:
In the beginning ‘god’ had this 'logos' in Joh 1:1. Katie our thoughts and ideas are fundamentally us. As Solomon said, “As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he…” So as ‘god’ thinkenth, so is ‘he’. Therefore god’s 'logos' or thinking is ‘god’: "the word/logos was God"
I think we need to be careful in trying to compare God with man. We are made in His image, not the other way around. I do not think we can accurately say that God is what He thinks. God is spirit, which we mortals cannot fully understand. We live in a 3 dimensional world whereas God exists outside of it. God is so far above man that we can only dimly understand Him even with the biblical revelation of Him.
That means that what defines God . . . His Holy Spirit (Consciousness) . . . was incarnated into a human body and brain (intermediary state) to make God accessible to us. First in the physical presence of Christ on the earth . . . and then permanently within the collective human consciousness upon His physical death and rebirth as Spirit (Comforter). The trinity is the result of the "precepts and doctrines of men" floundering in ignorance about what consciousness is and what defines a person. There is no mystery once consciousness is understood and recognized as the source of personhood.
Jesus was not reborn as spirit. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit, the Comforter.
I think we need to be careful in trying to compare God with man. We are made in His image, not the other way around. I do not think we can accurately say that God is what He thinks. God is spirit, which we mortals cannot fully understand. We live in a 3 dimensional world whereas God exists outside of it. God is so far above man that we can only dimly understand Him even with the biblical revelation of Him.
I agree. The word/logos at v 14 is a person. However, I don’t perceive the word/logos at v 1 to be a person.
The Greek word for “word” is logos. Logos in its strictest meaning refers to the inner thought which is expressed outwardly in words.
Excerpted from Vine’s Expository Dictionary:
In the beginning ‘god’ had this 'logos' in Joh 1:1. Katie our thoughts and ideas are fundamentally us. As Solomon said, “As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he…” So as ‘god’ thinkenth, so is ‘he’. Therefore god’s 'logos' or thinking is ‘god’: "the word/logos was God"
You haven't told me who US and OUR are in Genesis 1:26. "Let Us make man in Our image."
Jesus was not reborn as spirit. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit, the Comforter.
God is Spirit. His consciousness is the Holy Spirit. Jesus is now Spirit having been reborn as Spirit. They are ONE . . . what about that do you not understand? What other "essence" could possibly be involved in their oneness? What defines a "person" if not their consciousness?
God is Spirit. His consciousness is the Holy Spirit. Jesus is now Spirit having been reborn as Spirit. They are ONE . . . what about that do you not understand? What other "essence" could possibly be involved in their oneness? What defines a "person" if not their consciousness?
So according to this idea, Jesus is "only now spirit, having been re-born as Spirit" ...I thought you said Jesus developed a brain just like God in his earthly existence.
Therefore your idea suggests that while Jesus developed a brain just like God in earthly existence, Jesus is "only now" Spirit having been re-born as Spirit.
This would seem very contradictory.
Last edited by stargazzer; 03-15-2012 at 12:32 PM..
Jesus was God before He manifested Himself into human flesh; He was already spirit (God is spirit ~ John 4:24) before His manifestation. What about that do you not understand?
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