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::Sigh:: This looks like a major emotional abreaction to a perceived assault on sacred beliefs. IF you are going to join Mike in his hypostatic, hydromatic, kenosis, hypnosis nonsense we are not going to have very much to talk about, star.
Excerpt:
Historical development
The doctrine of the hypostatic union (the two natures of Jesus) was adopted as orthodox doctrine at the Council of Chalcedon in 451. Three major schools of theology were involved at the council: Alexandria, Antioch, and the West. The consensus of these three schools in the Chalcedonian Creed illustrates the catholicity (i.e. universality) of the ancient church. ^[1]^ The creed asserted two distinct natures, human and divine, and affirmed the one person of Jesus Christ. Two natures of Jesus - Theopedia, an encyclopedia of Biblical Christianity
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ... 14] And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Hypostatic Union and Kenosis
Phil 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7] but emptied Himself (refrained from the independent use of His deity - Kenosis), taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men .
Jesus was God before He manifested Himself into human flesh; He was already spirit (God is spirit ~ John 4:24) before His manifestation. What about that do you not understand?
::Sigh:: This looks like a major emotional abreaction to a perceived assault on sacred beliefs. IF you are going to join Mike in his hypostatic, hydromatic, kenosis, hypnosis nonsense we are not going to have very much to talk about, star.
Theres no point in getting upset with the true findings.
So you believe the angels were co creators with God. Please provide book, chapter, verse.
May I remind you that John 1:2-3 says:
He (the Word) was in the beginning with God. ALL THINGS came into being by Him (the Word), and APART FROM HIM NOTHING came into being that has come into being.
Jesus was creator of all things, including man.
There is absolutely no scriptural proof that angels created man or anything else. You have elevated angels to the equivalent of creator, a position that belongs to God alone.
Excerpt:
Historical development
The doctrine of the hypostatic union (the two natures of Jesus) was adopted as orthodox doctrine at the Council of Chalcedon in 451. Three major schools of theology were involved at the council: Alexandria, Antioch, and the West. The consensus of these three schools in the Chalcedonian Creed illustrates the catholicity (i.e. universality) of the ancient church. ^[1]^ The creed asserted two distinct natures, human and divine, and affirmed the one person of Jesus Christ. Two natures of Jesus - Theopedia, an encyclopedia of Biblical Christianity
Yada, yada, yada . . . I am familiar with the "precepts and doctrines of men" you subscribe to, Mike. I just find them to be absurd inferences and interpretations from the scriptures to conform to a preconceived belief system about God and our relationship to him . . . created entirely by men.
The word of God also was actively involved in creation. Can an idea create? If the word was God, does that mean God was only an idea in the mind of God?
According to John 1:2,3, "He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."
This doesn't sound like angels were co creators with God to create man. So exactly who is the US and OUR in Genesis 3:26?
Katie
Nowhere either in the ‘Old Testament’ or in the extra-canonical literature of the Jews is the ‘word’of God a literal person.
Quote:
Isa 55:11 so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
Psa 148:5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.
‘God’ creating and accomplishing everything by his spoken word is an obvious Old Testament doctrine.
Then please desist from excersizing an assumption of authority suggesting that everyone is out of step with virtue humility. There is nothing wrong with the progression of this thread and I see no need for one, to climb up upon a personal pulpit.
I haven't been doing anything you are unable to spell correctly.
My words are backed up with God's Word. I think you have a mistaken idea of what my post concerning humility entailed. And It wasn't even addressed to you.
Nowhere either in the ‘Old Testament’ or in the extra-canonical literature of the Jews is the ‘word’of God a literal person.
‘God’ creating and accomplishing everything by his spoken word is an obvious Old Testament doctrine.
The New Testament: Rev 19:13 'And He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood; and His name is called the Word of God.
The Old Testament: Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD (Yahweh) came to Abram in a vision, saying, ''Do not fear Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great..''
2] And Abram said, ''O Lord (Adonay) God (Yahweh), what wilt Thou give me, since I am childless...
4] Then behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying ''This man will not be your heir; but one who shall come forth from your own body, he shall be your heir.
5] And He (the word of the LORD) took him outside and said, ''Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them.''
The word of the LORD here is Jesus Christ. He appeared to Abram in a vision, He spoke to him, and He took Abram outside.
It was also Jesus Christ who appeared as one of the three 'men' who visited Abraham (Gen chapter 18).
This is why Jesus said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." (John 8:56).
That the word of the LORD in Genesis 15:1 is Jesus Christ has not gone unrecognized.
Excerpt:
Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
The word of the Lord came unto Abram - This is the first place where God is represented as revealing himself by his word. Some learned men suppose that the דבר יהוה debar Yehovah, translated here word of the Lord, means the same with the λογος του Θεου of St. John, John 1:1, and, by the Chaldee paraphrases in the next clause, called מימרי meimeri, "my word," and in other places מימרא דיי meimera daiya, the word of Yeya, a contraction for Jehovah, which they appear always to consider as a person; and which they distinguish from פתגמא pithgama, which signifies merely a word spoken, or any part of speech. Genesis 15:1 Bible Commentary
Excerpt:
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision; Christ, the essential Word, appeared to Abram in an human form, visible to him, and with an articulate voice spoke unto him: Genesis 15:1 Bible Commentary
So you believe the angels were co creators with God. Please provide book, chapter, verse.
May I remind you that John 1:2-3 says: He (the Word) was in the beginning with God. ALL THINGS came into being by Him (the Word), and APART FROM HIM NOTHING came into being that has come into being.
Jesus was creator of all things, including man.
There is absolutely no scriptural proof that angels created man or anything else. You have elevated angels to the equivalent of creator, a position that belongs to God alone.
Katie
Here’ an alternate translation of Joh 1:1-3 to offer you a clearer understanding of my reading of this passage.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the message/divine purpose/reason/wisdom, and the message/divine purpose/reason/wisdom was towards God, and the message/divine purpose/reason/wisdom was Divine.
Joh 1:2 This existed, in the beginning, with God.
Joh 1:3 All things created came into existence on account of it; and without it nothing created came into existence.
You keep insisting that “the word” in v. 1 must be a person due to the Trinitarian translation of John 1:2-3.
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