Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't believe in the Trinity, Ancient Warrior. The Trinity is not something that at stated in the scriptures. The scriptures reveal that Jesus has a God. The Father does not have a God. So this tells me that One is greater than the other. They are not on the same level. Jesus has already said that the Father is greater than He is. He has a God. Who is the One and Only True God's God?
Right And Jesus always submitted to His Father Jehovah. And in the end, He will be subject to Him. (1 Corinthians 15)
The realization that there is only One True God does not take away from the glory of Jesus who is the exact image of the Father, the One who came to reveal the Father, who is in the bosom of the Father, who gave His life for us, who is the head of the body the church, who has been made heir of all things, who was given all authority and power in heaven and on earth, who was given the name above all names. He deserves and will receive everyone's worship and adoration, for God has highly exalted Him. God bless and peace.
Quote:
The realization that there is only One True God does not take away from the glory of Jesus who is the exact image of the Father,
When a person doesn't read/study the OT in regards to facts about Messiah they say things such as what I've bolded above without truly realizing what the words "image of the Father" means.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:3) KJV
Note the KJV says, 'before me.' However in the Hebrew it says, 'before my Face; or My Presence. Why is this important or why does it matter?
It was/has been the Face or Presence of YHVH who's "saved" His ppl and or brought them out of Egypt, etc etc.
So what was the author of book of Hebrews, who knew the OT Scriptures and taught from them, saying when he states: "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high."
He was saying Messiah; the Face/Presence of God, is the 'me' of Ex. 20:3.
ETA:It’s the Son of God who is the true Divine Image. He's the One we’re to look to at to see God, and He's the One are to look to receive life; the Presence/ Image of the unseen YHVH, Messiah the Christ.
Last edited by mshipmate; 03-25-2012 at 04:39 PM..
Thanks for sharing your interpretation, Mshipmate. I agree that Jesus is the express image of the invisible God. He is the exact representation of His nature. I also believe that an image is not the original and but reflects the original. Jesus has a God and He always directs us to Him. He sat down at His right hand. God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 03-25-2012 at 08:42 PM..
Thanks for sharing your interpretation, Mshipmate. I agree that Jesus is the express image of the invisible God. He is the exact representation of His nature. I also believe that an image is not the original and but reflects the original. Jesus has a God and He always directs us to Him. He sat down at His right hand. God bless and peace.
Okay, Shana I'm going to explain one more time how we know Messiah was God in the flesh and then I'll leave you to your proof texting and taking passages out of context to prove your misunderstanding of God's Plan/Purpose.
Part of the reason you don't understand His Plan/Puropse is because you forget to look to the OT to intrepret/explain the NT.
God divorced Israel because they fell into idolatry; spiritual adultrey, and because they went after "her lovers."
Now the Law says a man cannot remarry his wife if she marries another man. So now the only way God can remarry Israel is if the marriage covenant is canceld by "death."
So who divorced Israel? The Father or Messiah?
Who then had to come to die to "reclaim" Isreal? The Father as the Son of God i.e the Word made flesh.
Now let's fastforward to the NT and whom did Messiah/God in the flesh, say He came for? Only the lost sheep of the HOUSE OF ISRAEL.
So believers are Israel. Either natural Israel or grated in[to] Israel. There's no such thing as a gentile Christian......that's an oxymoron.
Believers are either Israel or they're none of His.
I couldn't see if someone already touched on this subject, but how can Jesus be both a created being and yet Creator of ALL things? Doesn't that mean he had to have created himself?
When a person doesn't read/study the OT in regards to facts about Messiah they say things such as what I've bolded above without truly realizing what the words "image of the Father" means.
Shana has an excellent grasp of Jesus and the scriptures, mshipmate. You misuse the OT because you do not divide it from the NT. You misunderstand who it was for and what its purpose was that Jesus fulfilled. There is no way to reconcile ancient ignorance and superstition with modern knowledge and understanding of the Bible, its history, composition, creation, and evolution through transliteration and translation across multiple cultures and generations. If you do not apply the clear example of the "mind of Christ" (WWJD) . . . or engage in extensive scholarship . . . you cannot or should not try to teach. It carries a heavy burden.
One Order of Spiritual Discernment To Go Please!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Shana has an excellent grasp of Jesus and the scriptures, mshipmate. You misuse the OT because you do not divide it from the NT. You misunderstand who it was for and what its purpose was that Jesus fulfilled. There is no way to reconcile ancient ignorance and superstition with modern knowledge and understanding of the Bible, its history, composition, creation, and evolution through transliteration and translation across multiple cultures and generations. If you do not apply the clear example of the "mind of Christ" (WWJD) . . . or engage in extensive scholarship . . . you cannot or should not try to teach. It carries a heavy burden.
Psalm 89:48 KJV asks the question:
"What man is he that liveth and shall not see death?"
Given your Christ like mind and extensive scholarship Mystic, what is the answer?
One Order of Spiritual Discernment To Go Please!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
God is love. There is nothing to fear. We reap what we sow unless we repent. So . . . "love God and each other" and repent when you don't. That's it!
Shalom Mystic
that's a great answer...if the question was asking what G-d is. i know this post is off topic but here's the question again...
"What man is he that liveth and shall not see death?" Psalm 89:48 KJV.
There is but one, and only one scriptural answer...
Shana has an excellent grasp of Jesus and the scriptures, mshipmate. You misuse the OT because you do not divide it from the NT. You misunderstand who it was for and what its purpose was that Jesus fulfilled. There is no way to reconcile ancient ignorance and superstition with modern knowledge and understanding of the Bible, its history, composition, creation, and evolution through transliteration and translation across multiple cultures and generations. If you do not apply the clear example of the "mind of Christ" (WWJD) . . . or engage in extensive scholarship . . . you cannot or should not try to teach. It carries a heavy burden.
Quote:
You misuse the OT because you do not divide it from the NT. You misunderstand who it was for and what its purpose was that Jesus fulfilled. There is no way to reconcile ancient ignorance and superstition with modern knowledge and understanding of the Bible, its history, composition, creation, and evolution through transliteration and translation across multiple cultures and generations
The term 'testament' simply means covenant. Matter of fact the term NT came form Tertullian (ca. A.D. 155-220)
Now as to your comment about the OT being obsolete. Yet the NT contains 695 quotes from the OT. Of the 26 books/letters of the NT, 20 of them quote from the OT. And of the 39 OT books ONLY 9 of them are not quoted in the NT.
Messiah quoted from The OT 78 times; 60 of which are from the first 5 books. He also quoted from the Pentateach alone, 28 times.
The first 5 books of the OT are quoted in the New at least 245 times and Paul quoted from those books from 75-110 times.
When you include references to the OT along with words such as 'it is written,' "have you not read?" The Law and the Prophets, etc. etc. it may be as high as 4,105 times it's mentioned and or quoted.
Paul makes mention of the OT, the Holy Scriptures, the Scriptures and such in 2 Tim. 3:15-17, (makes one wise) Acts 16:1-3; 28:23-24.
It might surprise you to know Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Elijah, Daniel, David etc, were promised eternal life and salvation the same way we do; through faith and belief in the promised Messiah.
And, BTW Messaih and His disciples all taught from the OT since the NT had not be written yet.
What do you think He was referring to when He said, "Have you not read?" or "It is written" or "according to the Law [first 5 books] and the Prophets [Psalms and the Prophets]."
Isa 8:20 To the law [first 5 books]and to the testimony[psalms and prophets]: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Last edited by mshipmate; 03-27-2012 at 09:46 PM..
The term 'testament' simply means covenant. Matter of fact the term NT came form Tertullian (ca. A.D. 155-220)
Now as to your comment about the OT being obsolete. Yet the NT contains 695 quotes from the OT. Of the 26 books/letters of the NT, 20 of them quote from the OT. And of the 39 OT books ONLY 9 of them are not quoted in the NT.
The OT is not obsolete . . . it had a different purpose . . . to tell us of Christ, prepare us for Him, enable us to identify Him, validate Him through prophesies, etc. Of course it was quoted from. They were trying to validate Jesus using it. We still use it the same way. It is when you think all the anachronistic cultural traditions, roles, superstitions, and sundry prohibitions that were to tame our ignorant savage ancestors apply to us today that you completely misuse and fail to properly divide the scriptures, mshipmate. There are many things in the OT that are useful for instruction, both good and bad, to enable us to spiritually discern which is which using the "mind of Christ" and the guidance of His Holy Spirit within.
Learning to spiritually discern the lessons in the scriptures requires that we practice using the guidance of the Holy Spirit to what God has "Written in our hearts." That takes practice to develop confidence. If you blindly accept that everything is Good . . . you fail to exercise that critical faculty and you shun the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Thinking it all must be good because God's ways are mysterious ways or whatever is a cop out and an abdication of our responsibility to develop our spiritual judgment and maturity.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And Jesus always submitted to His Father Jehovah. And in the end, He will be subject to Him. (1 Corinthians 15)
One Order of Spiritual Discernment To Go Please!!!
