Estranged Catholic Debating Joining Episcopal Or Lutheran Church (traditions, Gospel, women)
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I have been debating about joining the Episcopal or Lutheran Church.After being away from church for many years,I feel God is calling me back.I feel I can never return to the Catholic church because:
1)I do not agree with Papal Infallibility
2)I do not agree with the RCC's closed communion policy
3)I do not feel that that it is a sin to use ABC.
I have been told that number one is a biggie,and that even if I ever returned to the RCC,I would not be able to receive communion.
I consider myself a moderate on most church issues as I am prolife,and liberal socially.
Being Catholic I should maybe be obligated to try to explain to you the validity or reason behind what you reject, but I'm guessing you're pretty set on those three matters.
I have been debating about joining the Episcopal or Lutheran Church.After being away from church for many years,I feel God is calling me back.I feel I can never return to the Catholic church because:
1)I do not agree with Papal Infallibility
2)I do not agree with the RCC's closed communion policy
3)I do not feel that that it is a sin to use ABC.
I have been told that number one is a biggie,and that even if I ever returned to the RCC,I would not be able to receive communion.
I consider myself a moderate on most church issues as I am prolife,and liberal socially.
If you are a former Catholic I advice the Episcopal Church. They are liberal and they keep a semblance to Catholicism. However, they are not the real deal. IF you can deal with not belonging to the original Christian Church then you should be OK.
I have been debating about joining the Episcopal or Lutheran Church.After being away from church for many years,I feel God is calling me back.I feel I can never return to the Catholic church because:
1)I do not agree with Papal Infallibility
2)I do not agree with the RCC's closed communion policy
3)I do not feel that that it is a sin to use ABC.
I have been told that number one is a biggie,and that even if I ever returned to the RCC,I would not be able to receive communion.
I consider myself a moderate on most church issues as I am prolife,and liberal socially.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
If you are a former Catholic I advice the Episcopal Church. They are liberal and they keep a semblance to Catholicism. However, they are not the real deal. IF you can deal with not belonging to the original Christian Church then you should be OK.
We Episcopalians are pretty real, even though our beginnings were born of a somewhat shaky basis. I realize a Catholic will naturally believe what Julian said, and I do not take offense. I don't believe that God is as concerned with man's artificial divisions and categorizations as man is. While I wouldn't say that the Anglican church is the "original church" by a long shot, neither do I think that the RCC is, either. But, there are plenty of other threads on the subjectfor those who love to argue about it.
OP, the Episcopal Church acknowledges the Pope as the Bishop of Rome, but does not believe that any bishops are above any others. "Episcopal" means a church under the oversight of bishops.
The Episcopal (a/k/a Anglican) church also leaves wiggle room for individual beliefs of particular dogmas. For example, an Episcopalian may hold a wide range of beliefs such as whether the Eucharist (Communion) is transubstiation or merely a remembrance or anywhere in between and not be frowned upon--one of the tenets of the church is that our faith is based upon Scripture, Tradition, and Reason. ("Christ came into the world to take away our sins, not our God-given ability to reason.")
The Episcopal church is also, in general, more "liberal" than most Christian churches and more concerned and focused upon social justice and the obligation of a Christian to speak up for others than most other Christian churches.
I have not been to a Lutheran church yet, but I'd like to visit one. I found a small Episcopal congregation that I love, although I first tried another Episcopal church where I didn't quite fit. Suggest you visit a few Lutheran and Episcopal churches in your area and find out what they are about.
One thing you can bet on in ANY Episcopal church you attend--you will find former Catholics. You'll find people who migrated there from other Christian traditions, too.
Hi Franny,
I understand how you feel and if you were to leave for say the Episcopal Church which is also known as Catholic Lite it would be understandable.
I know a few people that have made that journey.
While there is nothing in itself wrong with joining another Church many find it hard to stop being Catholic.
Many of us choose not to allow ourselves to be pushed out of our Church, although there may come a time.
I think you will find most Catholics sitting next to you in the pew on Sunday would agree with you on the three points you have listed above.
The key is to find a good all inclusive parish where the Gospel is still being preached, problem today is that many Catholic churches only preach about sin and obedience to church law, the Gospel of Jesus Christ has taken a back seat.
I would suggest you go to the New York board at this forum and ask where to find a more moderate or liberal/ progressive parish, I know you like to consider yourself a moderate but for all practical purposes seeing how the church hierarchy has become so conservative your three points mention above makes you a progressive, get use to it, it isn’t a dirty ten letter word.
Also you can get recommendations for a parish that would be a good fit from your local Voice of The Faithful Group or Pax Christi Group, they are also good groups to get involved in and you will find you will have a lot in common with many in those groups, they are very loving and kind.
Many of us are trying to reform the Catholic Church here in America through the “American Catholic Council” actually there are clergy and laity throughout the world demanding changes.
But before I would join another Church be it Episcopal etc. I would checkout the “Intentional Eucharistic Communities in your area.
Most Intentional Eucharistic Communities are formed by Catholics who wish to remain Catholic and practice their Catholic faith outside of the Institutional Church, they often use retired Catholic priests to say Mass, some use ordained Catholic women priests.
They hold Mass on Sundays in schools and even in homes much like the early Church; I have met many of them, they are as Catholic as you and I. ted
1)I do not agree with Papal Infallibility
2)I do not agree with the RCC's closed communion policy
3)I do not feel that that it is a sin to use ABC.
1)I do not agree with Papal Infallibility: It is mostly part of Catholic culture and the fact that the church cannot be wrong because it was founded by Jesus.
2)I do not agree with the RCC's closed communion policy: So you want to give communion to every Joe Blow that shows up in church. You forget that being Catholic requires formal baptism, 1st communion, and confirmation. If they offer communion to anyone with no requisites they would be a typical protestant church that has no set rules to follow.
3)I do not feel that that it is a sin to use ABC: Who cares! Many Catholics use BC, they just don't tell the pope.
1)I do not agree with Papal Infallibility: It is mostly part of Catholic culture and the fact that the church cannot be wrong because it was founded by Jesus.
2)I do not agree with the RCC's closed communion policy: So you want to give communion to every Joe Blow that shows up in church. You forget that being Catholic requires formal baptism, 1st communion, and confirmation. If they offer communion to anyone with no requisites they would be a typical protestant church that has no set rules to follow.
3)I do not feel that that it is a sin to use ABC: Who cares! Many Catholics use BC, they just don't tell the pope.
1)I do not agree with Papal Infallibility: It is mostly part of Catholic culture and the fact that the church cannot be wrong because it was founded by Jesus.
The Church has been wrong many times, papal Infallibility as declared by Pius IX is a crock, he declared only because he was on the verge of losing power and his Papal States; and it is with good reason to believe Pius IX was a madman.
2)I do not agree with the RCC's closed communion policy: So you want to give communion to every Joe Blow that shows up in church. You forget that being Catholic requires formal baptism, 1st communion, and confirmation. If they offer communion to anyone with no requisites they would be a typical protestant church that has no set rules to follow.
Only baptism is required, and we accept baptism of other Christian denominations, we don't rebaptise.
The hierachy gives communion to non Catholics like Bill Clinton and Tony Blair they were not Catholic, however they are members of the ELITE ruling class and not your everyday common person.
I think Jesus would offer it to the common people before the Elite.
3)I do not feel that that it is a sin to use ABC: Who cares! Many Catholics use BC, they just don't tell the pope
Julian how can you say "who cares, just don't tell the pope" why you are starting to sound like a Cafeteria Catholic" shame on you
1)I do not agree with Papal Infallibility: It is mostly part of Catholic culture and the fact that the church cannot be wrong because it was founded by Jesus.
The Church has been wrong many times, papal Infallibility as declared by Pius IX is a crock, he declared only because he was on the verge of losing power and his Papal States; and it is with good reason to believe Pius IX was a madman.
2)I do not agree with the RCC's closed communion policy: So you want to give communion to every Joe Blow that shows up in church. You forget that being Catholic requires formal baptism, 1st communion, and confirmation. If they offer communion to anyone with no requisites they would be a typical protestant church that has no set rules to follow.
Only baptism is required, and we accept baptism of other Christian denominations, we don't rebaptise.
The hierachy gives communion to non Catholics like Bill Clinton and Tony Blair they were not Catholic, however they are members of the ELITE ruling class and not your everyday common person.
I think Jesus would offer it to the common people before the Elite.
3)I do not feel that that it is a sin to use ABC: Who cares! Many Catholics use BC, they just don't tell the pope
Julian how can you say "who cares, just don't tell the pope" why you are starting to sound like a Cafeteria Catholic" shame on you
Being wrong or right is relative to the era.
Newton was right until Einstein came along. That does not mean Newton was a loser. Within his era and contemporaries Newton was correct.
In Biblical times it was OK to murder gays, now it is not OK.
So the Popes will also be proven wrong over time.
Had no idea BC took communion. It certainly shows his ignorance and I realize that the priest could not say no.
I am an Episcopalian with many Roman Catholic friends. There is congregant and celebrant movement between the denominations. Keep in mind that there is variation within the Episcopal Church, Episcopalians often describe specific parishes as 'high' (services more like the Roman Catholics) or 'low' (akin to Lutheran services).
I don't know how Lutheran Churches are administered but in the Episcopal Church the parish vestry hires (and pays) their priests subject to the consent of the Bishop. Although each parish uses the same book of common prayer there is a lot of variation in its expression.
Pope John Paul II gave Holy Communion to British Prime Minister Tony Blair in 2004, before he converted from Anglicanism to Catholicism. In Johannesburg, South Africa, President Bill Clinton, a Protestant, received the Holy Eucharist at Queen of the World Church. And Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger gave communion to a minister of the Swiss Reformed Church at Pope John Paul II’s funeral.
I am sure there has been many others, and I am sure it was known that these famous people were not Catholic.
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We Episcopalians are pretty real, even though our beginnings were born of a somewhat shaky basis. I realize a Catholic will naturally believe what Julian said, and I do not take offense. I don't believe that God is as concerned with man's artificial divisions and categorizations as man is. While I wouldn't say that the Anglican church is the "original church" by a long shot, neither do I think that the RCC is, either. But, there are plenty of other threads on the subjectfor those who love to argue about it.
. It certainly shows his ignorance and I realize that the priest could not say no.
