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Hi everyone I think that there is so much misunderstanding about death and resurrection in the Bible, Not the scriptures but the Bible which is a "translation" of the Scriptures.
There is no translational issue involved, but there is certainly a lack of understanding on the part of those who think that the soul is mortal. The Bible clearly shows the soul to be immortal.
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The scriptures clearly say that the wages of sin is death. We die. It isn't that our body dies and our spirit goes to heaven. We die. There would be no need of resurrection if we never died. Some say the spirit is immortal, at this time only God is immortal, We die. We will be resurrected on judgment day to be judged but until then we are dead and in the grave.
Many people seem to fail to realize that the Bible speaks of various categories of death. The various categories of death are the result and penalty for sin. Adam's original sin.
The Bible speaks of spiritual death, physical death, and the second death. There are other categories of death but the only ones that need be addressed are the three just mentioned.
1.) Physical death is simply the separation of the soul from the body. Several passages have already been given which show this to be true.
2.) Spiritual death is separation from God in time. It is the alienation of the unbeliever from God. Here are two passages which refer to spiritual death.
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
Col 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
In Eph 2:1 and Col 2:13 these believers are said to have once been dead in their sins. But yet they were still physically alive. They were physically alive even while being spiritually dead before they trusted in Christ for eternal life.
3.) The Second death is the continuation of spiritual death for all eternity in Gehenna - the lake of fire (Rev 20:14).
When Adam sinned, he immediately died spiritually and began to die physically, but did not physically die until the age of 930. Because he believed in the promise of the future Messiah he was born again and therefore spiritually regenerated.
Because of Adam's original sin everyone is born physically alive but spiritually dead. If they die physically never having received Christ as Savior then they will undergo the second death which is spending the eternal future in the lake of fire.
When the Bible says that death will be destroyed, it is not talking about spiritual death or the second death, but only about physical death. The reason that physical death will be destroyed is because every human being who has ever lived will be physically resurrected. Dan 12:2 "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. The believer's body will be physically resurrected to everlasting life while the unbeliever's body will be physically resurrected to disgrace and everlasting contempt in the lake of fire.
Everyone is born under the penalty of spiritual death and physical death. Those who die physically never having believed in Christ will experience the penalty of the second death. The penalty of spiritual death is removed at the moment of faith in Christ. The penalty of physical death will be removed at the resurrection of the body. The unbeliever though physically alive in the lake of fire will be under the penalty of the second death forever.
To properly understand the fact that the wages of sin is death the various categories of death must be understood.
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If we never die but the saved go straight to heaven and the unsaved go to hell why would we need resurrection?
Although I already covered this in post #15 I will go over it again. Resurrection ALWAYS refers to the body. Not to the soul. The soul of the believer goes into the presence of God in heaven at the point of physical death, but the body needs to be resurrected because God does not intend for man to go through eternity as a disembodied spirit.
The believer goes straight to heaven when he dies while the unbeliever goes to the 'torments' side of Hades and will remain there until the end of the Millennium when at the second resurrection which is the resurrection of the bodies of all unbelievers throughout human history he will appear before Jesus Christ at the great white throne judgment and then sent to the lake of fire (Rev 20:11-15).
When I say that resurrection always refers to the body I mean that the body of man is the only part of man which dies and needs to therefore be resurrected. The soul does not die but simply rejoins the body when it is resurrected.
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What about Judgment day , we would not need it judgment has already been given.
The unbeliever in the 'Torments' side of Hades awaits his judgment at the great white throne just as the particular group of fallen angels who were involved in the Genesis 6 incident are imprisoned in Tartarus awaiting their judgment.
Jude 1:6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
It is to these imprisoned fallen angels that Jesus Christ made a proclamation. He didn't preach to them, He proclaimed His victory over Satan at the cross.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19] in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20] who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.
2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell (tartaroó - tartarus) and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;
It may be that Tartarus is another compartment of Hades, and while human unbelievers are confined in the 'Torments' side of Hades awaiting their judgment, the fallen angels who are imprisoned in Tartarus are awaiting their judgment. Not all fallen angels are imprisoned in Tartarus. Most of the fallen angels are still operational during human history. It is only the group of fallen angels who were responsible for the Nephilim in Genesis 6 for which reason God brought the flood, who are now imprisoned.
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I have been told by some who believe we go straight to heaven and I ask why we would need resurrection they say our bodies are what is resurrected. Why would God resurrect a flesh body that can not go to heaven. They say it is then changes into a heavenly body. So what body did we have when we were in heaven before the resurrection and they have no answer.
The believer's soul goes to heaven at death. The soul is immortal but the body still needs to be resurrected into a body of immortality and incorruptability. The resurrected body will be fully suited for heaven. The believer in heaven may or may not have some kind of an interim body prior to his earthly body being resurrected as an immortal, incorruptable, and in that sense, a spiritual body though yet physical.
Revelation 6:9 is a passage which is set in heaven during the tribulation. John says that he saw the souls of Tribulational martyrs underneath the alter. These people (Tribulational believers) who had been martyred and are in heaven for the duration of the Tribulation which is occurring on the earth are asking how long it will be before they are avenged. They are given white robes. Now these believers are in heaven. They have not been resurrected as of yet. But they are given white robes which either means that they have some kind of interim body or that the disembodied soul takes on the appearance of their earthly body.
Revelation 6:9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10] and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11] And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
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The verses in Luke about the Rich man and Lazarus is a parable. It is the fifth part of a five part parable that includes, the lost sheep, the lost coin, the prodigal son and the unjust steward. This parable explains how Jesus will find all the lost, the first three, how the chosen will make bad choices, the unjust steward, and will be replaced by the gentiles, the rich man and Lazarus. This parable was directed at the Pharisees that were complaining because he was receiving them and eating with them.
Luke 16:19-31 is not a parable. At least not in the normal sense. Parables don't mention names, yet Abraham is mentioned. As I have earlier shown, both Hades and Tartarus, which itself may be a part of Hades, are places of imprisonment where those who are there await future judgment.
Though Jesus is illustrating that being rich should not be equated with being righteous, the reality of Hades is well established in the Scriptures.
Hades consists of that part which before the resurrection of Jesus was known as Paradise. It was separated from the 'torments' side of Hades by a great chasm - an impassible pit which may (or may not) be the abyss in which Satan is imprisoned during the Millennium (Rev 20:1-3). And as mentioned, Tartarus may be yet another compartment of Hades.
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The crux of the matter is that when we die we are dead and the dead know nothing. This is really good news because from our point of view we will lose consciousness and in a blink of an eye we will before Jesus awaiting judgment. From our point of view no time will have past no matter how long it has been.
Again, the Bible mentions different categories of death. The unbeliever while spiritually dead is physically alive. The soul of the unbeliever who has physically died will be imprisoned in the 'Torments' side of Hades until the end of the Millennium when his body will be resurrected and he will appear before Christ at the great white throne judgment and then cast body and soul into the lake of fire which is the second death. But he will be physically alive in his resurrected body which is designed for the lake of fire.
Again, as shown in the original post, Paul recounted the time when he found himself in Paradise in the third heaven (2 Cor 12:2-4). Probably in large part of that experience Paul said with confidence, 2 Cor 5:6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord 7] for we walk by faith, not by sight 8] we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
Your comment about the dead knowing nothing was an allusion to Ecc 9:5 ' For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten.' But Solomon was not describing soul sleep. He was saying that those in Hades know nothing about what is going on in this life. Ecc 9:6 'Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. Solomon was referring to the fact that those who have physically died and are in Hades, or Sheol since this is Old Testament, have no more opportunity for the things under the sun. If you want some commentary on Ecc 9:5 you can refer to this --> Ecclesiastes 9:5 Bible Commentary
And here we have witness to Satan's first lie in action... "Surely you will not die". Ironic.
Mike, the first verse you quote contradicts your entire premise.
God alone has immortality.
Yes, we will gain immortality, but not until after the resurrection when we are made incorruptible.
Exactly. ‘God’ alone possesses immortality. Therefore with basic common sense one can deduce that if ‘god’ is the only one who possesses immortality, then we humans do not. We humans must be given immortality.
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...as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly… Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption...for this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.See 1Co. 15:49-54.
One of the many false doctrines which is promoted is the belief that the believer does not go to heaven at physical death, but that the soul sleeps, or dies with the body. The idea is that the soul is not immortal. But the soul is indeed immortal and is shown to be so despite claims by many to the contrary. One of the reasons that many claim that the soul is mortal is because of the following passage.
1 Tim 6:15 which He will bring about at the proper time-- He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16] who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.
But that passage means only that God alone possesses immortality in and of Himself as a part of His essential nature. Applied to the humanity of Jesus Christ who is Himself God, it means that at the moment He alone has a resurrected immortal body. But God has given immortality to angels and to the souls of men. The resurrected bodies of men will be given immortality.
Some people base their belief that the soul is mortal on Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being (nephesh - soul)
Based on Gen 2:7 some people say that that the soul is the combination of the spirit and the body. But the Bible makes a clear distinction between the soul, the spirit, and the body.
1 Thess 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
That man's soul is immortal is easily seen from the following passages.
Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body. The soul continues to live after the death of the body as clearly taught in Matthew 10:28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Man can kill the body but cannot kill the soul. God however is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna. But destruction does not mean cessation of existence but refers to ruination and uselessness. As Daniel 12:2 says, '"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Those who go into Gehenna - the lake of fire will be in disgrace and everlasting contempt.
But that's the final destination of the unbeliever. Prior to that the soul of the unbeliever goes to the torments side of Hades as shown in Luke 16 which is not a parable as critics attempt to make it out to be.
The believer at physical death goes into the presence of God in heaven. Both Rev 6:9-11 and Rev 20:4 show the soul of tribulational martyrs in heaven while the tribulation is taking place on the earth.
The apostle Paul had been taken up into Paradise in the third heaven as recorded in 2 Cor 12:1-6. This event probably occurred when Paul was stoned by the Jews as recorded in Acts 14:19. He probably actually did die from the stoning at which point he went to heaven. He was then brought back to life by God. Paul could say with full confidence as he did in 2 Cor 5:8 'we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.'
Prior to the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ, Paradise was one of the compartments of Hades. Jesus told the thief "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise." (Luke 23:43).
Rachel's soul was said to depart from her because she died.
Gen 35:18 It came about as her soul was departing (for she died), that she named him Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin.
bə·ṣêṯ - to go or come out; translated as departing.
Peter understood that his body was but a tent, his earthly dwelling which would be laid aside at death.
2 Peter 1:13 I consider it right, as long as I am in this earthly dwelling, to stir you up by way of reminder, 14] knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15] And I will also be diligent that at any time after my departure you will be able to call these things to mind.
Peter spoke of his impending physical death as laying aside his body and departing.
As with any doctrine, in order to understand what the Bible says about about man's immortal soul and that the believer goes to heaven at physical death you have to take everything the Bible says about the subject from every place in the Bible, put it together and systematize it. I have shown but a few passages which are enough to show that man's soul is immortal and that the believer goes to heaven at death. The Bible is also clear about the eternal condemnation of the unbeliever after physical death, but in this post I only wanted to show that the believer goes to heaven at physical death.
Nothing in this verse teaches this lie which you claim:
"The soul continues to live after the death of the body as clearly taught in Matthew 10:28":
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
There is no translational issue involved, but there is certainly a lack of understanding on the part of those who think that the soul is mortal. The Bible clearly shows the soul to be immortal.
Many people seem to fail to realize that the Bible speaks of various categories of death. The various categories of death are the result and penalty for sin. Adam's original sin.
The Bible speaks of spiritual death, physical death, and the second death. There are other categories of death but the only ones that need be addressed are the three just mentioned.
1.) Physical death is simply the separation of the soul from the body. Several passages have already been given which show this to be true.
2.) Spiritual death is separation from God in time. It is the alienation of the unbeliever from God. Here are two passages which refer to spiritual death.
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
Col 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
In Eph 2:1 and Col 2:13 these believers are said to have once been dead in their sins. But yet they were still physically alive. They were physically alive even while being spiritually dead before they trusted in Christ for eternal life.
3.) The Second death is the continuation of spiritual death for all eternity in Gehenna - the lake of fire (Rev 20:14).
When Adam sinned, he immediately died spiritually and began to die physically, but did not physically die until the age of 930. Because he believed in the promise of the future Messiah he was born again and therefore spiritually regenerated.
Because of Adam's original sin everyone is born physically alive but spiritually dead. If they die physically never having received Christ as Savior then they will undergo the second death which is spending the eternal future in the lake of fire.
When the Bible says that death will be destroyed, it is not talking about spiritual death or the second death, but only about physical death. The reason that physical death will be destroyed is because every human being who has ever lived will be physically resurrected. Dan 12:2 "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. The believer's body will be physically resurrected to everlasting life while the unbeliever's body will be physically resurrected to disgrace and everlasting contempt in the lake of fire.
Everyone is born under the penalty of spiritual death and physical death. Those who die physically never having believed in Christ will experience the penalty of the second death. The penalty of spiritual death is removed at the moment of faith in Christ. The penalty of physical death will be removed at the resurrection of the body. The unbeliever though physically alive in the lake of fire will be under the penalty of the second death forever.
To properly understand the fact that the wages of sin is death the various categories of death must be understood.
Although I already covered this in post #15 I will go over it again. Resurrection ALWAYS refers to the body. Not to the soul. The soul of the believer goes into the presence of God in heaven at the point of physical death, but the body needs to be resurrected because God does not intend for man to go through eternity as a disembodied spirit.
The believer goes straight to heaven when he dies while the unbeliever goes to the 'torments' side of Hades and will remain there until the end of the Millennium when at the second resurrection which is the resurrection of the bodies of all unbelievers throughout human history he will appear before Jesus Christ at the great white throne judgment and then sent to the lake of fire (Rev 20:11-15).
When I say that resurrection always refers to the body I mean that the body of man is the only part of man which dies and needs to therefore be resurrected. The soul does not die but simply rejoins the body when it is resurrected.
The unbeliever in the 'Torments' side of Hades awaits his judgment at the great white throne just as the particular group of fallen angels who were involved in the Genesis 6 incident are imprisoned in Tartarus awaiting their judgment.
Jude 1:6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
It is to these imprisoned fallen angels that Jesus Christ made a proclamation. He didn't preach to them, He proclaimed His victory over Satan at the cross.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19] in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20] who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.
2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell (tartaroó - tartarus) and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;
It may be that Tartarus is another compartment of Hades, and while human unbelievers are confined in the 'Torments' side of Hades awaiting their judgment, the fallen angels who are imprisoned in Tartarus are awaiting their judgment. Not all fallen angels are imprisoned in Tartarus. Most of the fallen angels are still operational during human history. It is only the group of fallen angels who were responsible for the Nephilim in Genesis 6 for which reason God brought the flood, who are now imprisoned.
The believer's soul goes to heaven at death. The soul is immortal but the body still needs to be resurrected into a body of immortality and incorruptability. The resurrected body will be fully suited for heaven. The believer in heaven may or may not have some kind of an interim body prior to his earthly body being resurrected as an immortal, incorruptable, and in that sense, a spiritual body though yet physical.
Revelation 6:9 is a passage which is set in heaven during the tribulation. John says that he saw the souls of Tribulational martyrs underneath the alter. These people (Tribulational believers) who had been martyred and are in heaven for the duration of the Tribulation which is occurring on the earth are asking how long it will be before they are avenged. They are given white robes. Now these believers are in heaven. They have not been resurrected as of yet. But they are given white robes which either means that they have some kind of interim body or that the disembodied soul takes on the appearance of their earthly body.
Revelation 6:9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10] and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11] And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
Luke 16:19-31 is not a parable. At least not in the normal sense. Parables don't mention names, yet Abraham is mentioned. As I have earlier shown, both Hades and Tartarus, which itself may be a part of Hades, are places of imprisonment where those who are there await future judgment.
Though Jesus is illustrating that being rich should not be equated with being righteous, the reality of Hades is well established in the Scriptures.
Hades consists of that part which before the resurrection of Jesus was known as Paradise. It was separated from the 'torments' side of Hades by a great chasm - an impassible pit which may (or may not) be the abyss in which Satan is imprisoned during the Millennium (Rev 20:1-3). And as mentioned, Tartarus may be yet another compartment of Hades.
Again, the Bible mentions different categories of death. The unbeliever while spiritually dead is physically alive. The soul of the unbeliever who has physically died will be imprisoned in the 'Torments' side of Hades until the end of the Millennium when his body will be resurrected and he will appear before Christ at the great white throne judgment and then cast body and soul into the lake of fire which is the second death. But he will be physically alive in his resurrected body which is designed for the lake of fire.
Again, as shown in the original post, Paul recounted the time when he found himself in Paradise in the third heaven (2 Cor 12:2-4). Probably in large part of that experience Paul said with confidence, 2 Cor 5:6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord 7] for we walk by faith, not by sight 8] we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
Your comment about the dead knowing nothing was an allusion to Ecc 9:5 ' For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten.' But Solomon was not describing soul sleep. He was saying that those in Hades know nothing about what is going on in this life. Ecc 9:6 'Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. Solomon was referring to the fact that those who have physically died and are in Hades, or Sheol since this is Old Testament, have no more opportunity for the things under the sun. If you want some commentary on Ecc 9:5 you can refer to this --> Ecclesiastes 9:5 Bible Commentary
One of the many false doctrines which is promoted is the belief that the believer does not go to heaven at physical death, but that the soul sleeps, or dies with the body. The idea is that the soul is not immortal. But the soul is indeed immortal and is shown to be so despite claims by many to the contrary. One of the reasons that many claim that the soul is mortal is because of the following passage.
1 Tim 6:15 which He will bring about at the proper time-- He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16] who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.
But that passage means only that God alone possesses immortality in and of Himself as a part of His essential nature. Applied to the humanity of Jesus Christ who is Himself God, it means that at the moment He alone has a resurrected immortal body. But God has given immortality to angels and to the souls of men. The resurrected bodies of men will be given immortality.
Some people base their belief that the soul is mortal on Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being (nephesh - soul)
Based on Gen 2:7 some people say that that the soul is the combination of the spirit and the body. But the Bible makes a clear distinction between the soul, the spirit, and the body.
1 Thess 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
That man's soul is immortal is easily seen from the following passages.
Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body. The soul continues to live after the death of the body as clearly taught in Matthew 10:28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Man can kill the body but cannot kill the soul. God however is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna. But destruction does not mean cessation of existence but refers to ruination and uselessness. As Daniel 12:2 says, '"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Those who go into Gehenna - the lake of fire will be in disgrace and everlasting contempt.
But that's the final destination of the unbeliever. Prior to that the soul of the unbeliever goes to the torments side of Hades as shown in Luke 16 which is not a parable as critics attempt to make it out to be.
The believer at physical death goes into the presence of God in heaven. Both Rev 6:9-11 and Rev 20:4 show the soul of tribulational martyrs in heaven while the tribulation is taking place on the earth.
The apostle Paul had been taken up into Paradise in the third heaven as recorded in 2 Cor 12:1-6. This event probably occurred when Paul was stoned by the Jews as recorded in Acts 14:19. He probably actually did die from the stoning at which point he went to heaven. He was then brought back to life by God. Paul could say with full confidence as he did in 2 Cor 5:8 'we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.'
Prior to the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ, Paradise was one of the compartments of Hades. Jesus told the thief "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise." (Luke 23:43).
Rachel's soul was said to depart from her because she died.
Gen 35:18 It came about as her soul was departing (for she died), that she named him Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin.
bə·ṣêṯ - to go or come out; translated as departing.
Peter understood that his body was but a tent, his earthly dwelling which would be laid aside at death.
2 Peter 1:13 I consider it right, as long as I am in this earthly dwelling, to stir you up by way of reminder, 14] knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15] And I will also be diligent that at any time after my departure you will be able to call these things to mind.
Peter spoke of his impending physical death as laying aside his body and departing.
As with any doctrine, in order to understand what the Bible says about about man's immortal soul and that the believer goes to heaven at physical death you have to take everything the Bible says about the subject from every place in the Bible, put it together and systematize it. I have shown but a few passages which are enough to show that man's soul is immortal and that the believer goes to heaven at death. The Bible is also clear about the eternal condemnation of the unbeliever after physical death, but in this post I only wanted to show that the believer goes to heaven at physical death.
Looks like the OP is destroyed by this verse:
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Hmmm, our bodies are to be 'resurrected.' Resurrect means to bring back something which existed formerly but no longer exists. So, this body that will die will be resurrected, BUT it will be a DIFFERENT body and I will have been alive all the time in paradise (some would say hell) being perfectly happy without the restrictions of a body yet Paul places great importance on this resurrection. He says if there is no resurrection our faith is in vain. He says this to those who were already believers so I can't convince myself that he was saying this to mean spiritual awakening.
Martha, said her brother would live again at the resurrection. That seems perfectly clear that she didn't think of her brother alive in some spiritual state. Her brother would live again, not his body would rise again only. This shows that people in Jesus' day considered those who had died to be dead, not in any conscious existence. That would have been a very good time to correct any misconceptions they had about death. He told his disciples that Lazarus was sleeping, which is what Paul consistently said about those who died. This is a strange way of explaining that people are consciously experiencing joy with other departed loved ones.
In Acts, Chapter 2, Luke wrote of the prophecy David made of Jesus saying the Lord would not leave his soul in the grave or let his body see corruption but raised HIM back to life again. And David, NOT DAVID'S BODY ONLY, according to Luke, was still in the tomb and still there, and, I'm sure, still is.
I fail to understand Paul's emphasis on resurrection if Christians are doing just fine without a body.
I believed that we would go to paradise immediately after death for years. I did not want to consider that I would not 'exist'. It went against my instinct for survival. But I am ok with it now. It will seem instantaneous because I won't be aware of any time passage.
My mother died when I was 27. I still have memories of her so in a sense she is still alive. Yet my memories don't encompass her whole life and who she was, I only experienced a small part of that. My father, who lived many years past her death, had different memories. Her mother, different memories still. We all had a part of her but not the whole. God has all of us in his being. Sort of like our data on a hard drive. That to me is what it means when scripture says he is able to destroy both body and soul. He could make it so we might never be resurrected. But I am sure that he will not do so. He would have to destroy a part of Himself. Plus, He has a heart to finish what He has started and we are an integral part of God.
I also don't see the point of a judgment day if we are automatically sent to paradise or hell immediately upon death with no possibility of change. We would already know our judgment then. That is from the lens that 'judgment' is merely the passing of the verdict--'guilty' or 'innocent.' However I believe judgment is more than just a sentence. Judgment results in righteousness and, as we all can testify, the things that lead us to righteousness are not walk in the park, pie in the sky lives.
This certainly is another difficult and controversial subject. We have only minimal information about the age after this and that is the way God desires it to be for now. If I could have looked forward and seen the trials I would go through in my life I would have despaired. But the little splashes of joy have been worth it and Paul said that all the sorrow would be forgotten in the depths of joy which we will have some day.
Personally, my joy would be diminished if I thought anyone was experiencing infinite agony and anguish of soul. I am confident that God will finish what He started...He saw the 'end' from the beginning and called it 'good.'
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Your comment shows that you are not even interested in coming to a correct understanding of the matter but are simply attempting to debate and argue. Many passages have been given in this thread which show quite clearly that man's soul is immortal.
The verse you posted which you think 'destroys the original post' is part of the passage beginning with 1 Cor 15:35 and which refers to the resurrection of the body. The soul is not resurrected but only placed within the resurrected body. I'll start with verse 42.
1 Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43] it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44] it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45] So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." (this refers to the entire person. Body, soul, and spirit. This in no way conflicts with the fact that the soul is the immaterial part of man) The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46] However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47] The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48] As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49] Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly. 50] Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51] Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53] For this perishable (the body) must put on the imperishable, and this mortal (the body) must put on immortality. 54] But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory (reference to physical death).
Now compare the above passage with 1 Thess 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17] Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
Both passages are talking about the same event. The rapture of the church in which the church -age believer receives his resurrection body. Now 1 Thess 4:14 says that God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Christ.
God will bring with Him from heaven the souls of those who have died physically and whose bodies are in the ground. The souls of these believers will rejoin their now resurrected bodies.
Now as I said at the bottom of the original post, to correctly understand any doctrine, including the immortality of the soul, you must take into account every passage which is pertinent to the subject. You cannot take just certain passages while ignoring others and expect to properly understand the matter.
In this thread, in a number of posts, passages have been given which show that the human soul continues to live after the death of the body. Revelation 6:9-11 actually describes a scene in heaven in which the apostle John sees the souls of tribulational martyrs IN HEAVEN.
And despite that, some people still, in clear contradiction of what is stated and shown in the scriptures, deny that the believer goes to heaven when he dies.
Your comment shows that you are not even interested in coming to a correct understanding of the matter but are simply attempting to debate and argue. Many passages have been given in this thread which show quite clearly that man's soul is immortal.
The verse you posted which you think 'destroys the original post' is part of the passage beginning with 1 Cor 15:35 and which refers to the resurrection of the body. The soul is not resurrected but only placed within the resurrected body. I'll start with verse 42.
1 Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43] it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44] it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45] So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." (this refers to the entire person. Body, soul, and spirit. This in no way conflicts with the fact that the soul is the immaterial part of man) The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46] However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47] The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48] As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49] Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly. 50] Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51] Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53] For this perishable (the body) must put on the imperishable, and this mortal (the body) must put on immortality. 54] But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory (reference to physical death).
Now compare the above passage with 1 Thess 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17] Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
Both passages are talking about the same event. The rapture of the church in which the church -age believer receives his resurrection body. Now 1 Thess 4:14 says that God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Christ.
God will bring with Him from heaven the souls of those who have died physically and whose bodies are in the ground. The souls of these believers will rejoin their now resurrected bodies.
Now as I said at the bottom of the original post, to correctly understand any doctrine, including the immortality of the soul, you must take into account every passage which is pertinent to the subject. You cannot take just certain passages while ignoring others and expect to properly understand the matter.
In this thread, in a number of posts, passages have been given which show that the human soul continues to live after the death of the body. Revelation 6:9-11 actually describes a scene in heaven in which the apostle John sees the souls of tribulational martyrs IN HEAVEN.
And despite that, some people still, in clear contradiction of what is stated and shown in the scriptures, deny that the believer goes to heaven when he dies.
Mike you keep repeating yourself and proof texting the Scriptures but what you really need to do is to look into the history of the 'immortal soul' and you will discover it started with the Egyptians and later was perpetuated by Plato the pupil of Socrates.(428-348 B.C.)
Socrates and Pythagoras [were among] the first of the Greeks to adopt the Egyptian view, and they had a great influence on the thought of Plato.
It was Plato, not the Scriptures, that popularized the immortal soul throughout the Greek world.This concept [immortal soul] was a necessary "doctrine" to go along with the torments of "Hell."
It was these "frightful" teachings,taught to scare the masses into being good citizens, and later led to purgatory and indulgences, etc.
Mike you keep repeating yourself and proof texting the Scriptures but what you really need to do is to look into the history of the 'immortal soul' and you will discover it started with the Egyptians and later was perpetuated by Plato the pupil of Socrates.(428-348 B.C.)
Socrates and Pythagoras [were among] the first of the Greeks to adopt the Egyptian view, and they had a great influence on the thought of Plato.
It was Plato, not the Scriptures, that popularized the immortal soul throughout the Greek world.This concept [immortal soul] was a necessary "doctrine" to go along with the torments of "Hell."
It was these "frightful" teachings,taught to scare the masses into being good citizens, and later led to purgatory and indulgences, etc.
Moderator cut: Orphaned
You need to set aside your bias and learn to be honest with yourself and be objective if you are ever going to be able to see what the Scriptures so plainly teach. As shown from the Scriptures already provided, the immaterial soul of man is immortal and does indeed go to heaven at the point of physical death. Whatever the Greeks or the Egyptians believed is irrelevent to what the word of God teaches.
De Nile is not just the name of a river in Egypt...
Your comments above would be funny if it wasn't so sad that the truth about the teaching of an immortal sole is out there and yet you not only refuse to believe it, you refuse to check it out for yourself.
The OT says:
Ps 115:17 The dead praise not the Yahovah, neither any that go down into silence.
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."Ec 9:5
Then thanks to Plato little by little the false teaching of the immortal soul found it's way into the 'church' and subtly it became established as Christian precepts/doctrine.
In A.D. 150 Justin taught the soul ascended into heaven.
At the beginning of the 3rd century the third century, Tertullian, [Bishop of Carthage] had boldly proclaimed the immortality of the soul was a Christian doctrine.
Did Terullian base his conclusions on the OT? No. On the NT? No, but on the opinion of Plato!!
Then the RCC got a hold of the doctrine and that's where you are getting it from. Even the English reformer William Tyndale fought against the papal doctrine; saying: "And ye [papacy] in putting them [souls] in heaven, hell, and purgatory, destroy the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul prove the resurrection."
And there was John Milton, and J.A. Beeth who opposed the teaching of an immortal soul.
As I said, Mike...do the homework and you will see it was not taught by the early church fathers, but brought in later and finally taught by the RCC.
Again, the Scriptures already given show that the soul is immortal. Revelation 6:9-10 shows the souls of tribulational martyrs in heaven during the tribulation.
And I have already covered Ecc 9:5.
I have also already covered the fact that Paul who had been to heaven had the confidence to say 'absent from the body and at home with the Lord.
Man's soul is immortal.
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