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Old 09-22-2007, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Jacksonville,Florida
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The Life-Giver curses a tree,and then it withers and diesWhy does this seem so out of character for Jesus ?What message,what warning, is in there by this action?


Notice what Jesus says to Peter (Mark 11:22-26) after he asks the about the withered tree .How do these words fit in with what Peter said about the tree ?
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Old 09-22-2007, 12:24 PM
 
Location: God's Country
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I found this explanation: Fig trees a popular source of inexpensive food in Israel require three years from the time they are planted until they can bear fruit. Each tree yields a great amount of fruit twice a year, in late spring and in early autumn. This incident occurred early in the spring when the leaves were beginning to bud. The Figs normally grow as the leaves fill out, but this tree though full of leaves had none. The tree looked promising but offered no fruit. Jesus harsh words to the fig tree could be applied to the nation of Israel. Fruitful in appearance only. Israel was spiritually barren.

In verses 20-26 I think Jesus is saying the kind of prayer that moves mountains is a prayer for the fruitfulness of God's kingdom. We must have a forgiving attitude. And when we draw closer to God our prayers line up with His will.
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Old 09-23-2007, 12:45 AM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noland123 View Post
The Life-Giver curses a tree,and then it withers and diesWhy does this seem so out of character for Jesus ?What message,what warning, is in there by this action?


Notice what Jesus says to Peter (Mark 11:22-26) after he asks the about the withered tree .How do these words fit in with what Peter said about the tree ?
Here's another explanation I heard for this incident: That Jesus was teaching effective prayer, by example: that whatever we BELIEVE in our heart, then SAY with our mouth, will eventually come to pass. (exercising our faith...by adding WORKS to our faith...) (the SAYING is the works part...)
Here is the supporting scripture: (Mark 11)

20And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
21And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
22And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
23For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
24Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

If your faith is strong enough to really believe in something, then dare to SAY it outloud to the Lord...then watch what happens...!!!


Bud
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Old 09-23-2007, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Arizona, The American Southwest
52,627 posts, read 30,777,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noland123 View Post
The Life-Giver curses a tree,and then it withers and diesWhy does this seem so out of character for Jesus ?What message,what warning, is in there by this action?


Notice what Jesus says to Peter (Mark 11:22-26) after he asks the about the withered tree .How do these words fit in with what Peter said about the tree ?
Jesus used parables to set examples for all of us, and he was simply using the fig tree as an example to illustrate what happens when we don't bear the fruit. Also, keep in mind, Jesus came here to be THE savior for mankind, not fig trees or other inanimate objects.
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Old 09-23-2007, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Miami Lakes, Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
Here's another explanation I heard for this incident: That Jesus was teaching effective prayer, by example: that whatever we BELIEVE in our heart, then SAY with our mouth, will eventually come to pass. (exercising our faith...by adding WORKS to our faith...) (the SAYING is the works part...)
Here is the supporting scripture: (Mark 11)

20And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
21And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
22And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
23For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
24Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

If your faith is strong enough to really believe in something, then dare to SAY it outloud to the Lord...then watch what happens...!!!


Bud
This is classic Word Of Faith Movement (the Name it Claim it crowd) teaching... A lot of people have been disillusioned by this teaching... Many believers has been hurt by Ministers and believers telling them that the reason they didn't receive their healing was because of their lack of faith... Bible Answerman radio program receives a lot callers who have been affected by this...
If the above statement is true... Then, why is it that Amputee's, Severed Spinalcords, and Children with Down Syndrome are never healed... I spent 6 years in the Charismatic Movement and never seen or heard of any Verified healings of that type... I do believe that GOD does heal if it is his his will too...
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Old 02-29-2008, 06:56 PM
 
Location: on a green & blue ball called earth
265 posts, read 573,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noland123 View Post
The Life-Giver curses a tree,and then it withers and diesWhy does this seem so out of character for Jesus ?What message,what warning, is in there by this action?
Quote:
Originally Posted by noland123 View Post
Notice what Jesus says to Peter (Mark 11:22-26) after he asks the about the withered tree .How do these words fit in with what Peter said about the tree ?


anytime a tree perpatrates fruits, but when need arrives it has nothing to give, then it's a hypocrite. to pretend to have virtues, but have none at all calls for judgement. to stir up desire from afar off, and promise nutrition only to be tricked by a glossy and green cover up is just down right sinful.

for all those who claim to be Christian God will investigate all trees who say they are his. He is watching the trees season after season and when they are not producing He cuts his eyes at them, but watches on giving them time to bring forth good fruit. in the end God will lay the axe at the root and cast the thing in the fire to burn forever.

God is the master gardener.
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Old 02-29-2008, 06:56 PM
 
Location: on a green & blue ball called earth
265 posts, read 573,663 times
Reputation: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by noland123 View Post
The Life-Giver curses a tree,and then it withers and diesWhy does this seem so out of character for Jesus ?What message,what warning, is in there by this action?
Quote:
Originally Posted by noland123 View Post
Notice what Jesus says to Peter (Mark 11:22-26) after he asks the about the withered tree .How do these words fit in with what Peter said about the tree ?
anytime a tree perpetrates fruits, but when need arrives it has nothing to give, then it's a hypocrite. to pretend to have virtues, but have none at all calls for judgement. to stir up desire from afar off, and promise nutrition only to be tricked by a glossy and green cover up is just down right sinful.

for all those who claim to be Christian God will investigate all trees who say they are his. He is watching the trees season after season and when they are not producing He cuts his eyes at them, but watches on giving them time to bring forth good fruit. in the end God will lay the axe at the root and cast the thing in the fire to burn forever.

God is the master gardener.
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Old 02-29-2008, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
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The tree of life is known by its fruits. We are to inherit the tree of life, if we eat of its fruit (righteousness), by their fruits ye shall know them.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 05-11-2008, 08:00 AM
 
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Default Sticking to the text and context

I find this line of argumentation a bit problematic.
First of all a fig tree definitely puts out its fruit after the leaves are fully developed not the other way round and this takes place after the Passover festival in April (the almond tree puts out its blossom first in the month of February). Since I live down the road from where these events occurred I can testify to these facts.

Second, support for this is given in the two versions of the story which state that it was too early in the season to expect naturally ripe fruit on the fig tree. This implies that it would have been a miracle for there to have been ripe fruit that early in the year. Surely Jesus knew this since the fig tree is so much part of the landscape across the Land of Israel.

Third, Jesus doesn't interpret this living parable in the way that you present, namely the accursed Israel or prophesying the immediate demise of Israel for being fruitless, but rather uses it to teach about the power of prayer. So it is not the fact that it doesn't hold fruit that is the point but rather the withering of the tree so fast through the power of prayer.

Fourth, in Matthew and in Mark it states that Jesus was hungry and therefore he approached the tree in order to eat not in order to teach. If he wanted to use the tree as a living parable then he should have done so by simply pointing out a fig tree without fruit and then cursing it (or pronouncing judgment over it) and causing it to wither on the spot. His hunger was not satiated by his actions and I presume that he would have had to look for breakfast somewhere else.

Fifth, the understanding of the parable that Israel (the fig tree) is cursed because it rejected the Messiah (the fruit) symbolized by the fruitless tree is also problematic because Jesus was the fruit of Israel. In other words the tree did put forth fruit the fact that the tree did not recognize or accept the fruit is not within the parable.

Sixth, there is an apparent conflict between this action and the verses in Deut. 20:17-20 where there is an explicit command not to punish fruit bearing trees for the sins of man for "is a man like a tree in the field?"

So we are left with a problem of how to understand this story without falling into the trivial while staying honest with the text.

I can suggest two approaches that seem to be consistent with the text and the context and does not belittle Jesus.

Prayer: As I mention, Jesus must have been aware that it was too early for there to be ripe figs to be on a tree. He was hungry, he was the messiah or son of the Lord, so surely the laws of nature should shift for his sake just like they had shifted at his command or prayer up until that moment. Surely his disciples would expect another miracle. But the tree did not respond; fruit did not sprout forth spontaneously; breakfast was not hanging low to be picked. That to me is the most problematic part of the story – Jesus was hungry and the tree was without fruit! What would the disciples make of their hungry Lord searching amongst the leaves looking for a ripe fig? Why didn't a miracle occur? Because miracles do not happen for one's own benefit but only for the good of others. And if the power of prayer is misused then the punishment is to wither away. What a beautiful demonstration of the power of faith. Hunger will be overcome through faith not by bending the arm of nature.
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Old 05-11-2008, 08:35 AM
 
224 posts, read 383,139 times
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Mat 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward forever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
Mat 21:20 And when the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
Mat 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Mar 11:21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
Mar 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have aught against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespass


If you let the text explain itself it would seem that this scene had to do with prayer and faith. By both accounts that is the message that is given. Perhaps this was an example to the Apostles only in order to show them part of the power they would hold late on and how to use it correctly?
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