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Old 09-09-2012, 04:26 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 7,625,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave737driver View Post
as a practical matter you are onced saved always saved. the gifts of God, faith and salvation , are irrevocable....
Not according to the word of God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave737driver
...and trying to apply God's justice (which was satisfied in Christ) on a forum like this makes you a judge and you make yourself into a God...
...wrong again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave737driver
no one on here is qualified to make value judgments about who on here gets in or doesn't ..this is so carnal and pious..
The word of God, in and of itself is sufficient, and makes THE value judgement ALL BY ITSELF...but it must be read in the Light of Truth...then it can be understood in ALL it's Truth...and unless you are willing to believe in His every word by faith, and obey Him...then by HIS grace, you will not understand His Truth to DO it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave737driver View Post
I can hear Jesus now " many will say to me Lord Lord, we were on city data, prophesying in your name, saying who would get into heaven and who would not, how not keeping one of your commandments would mean no eternal life...

and He will say, "depart from me, I never knew you"
What do these passages mean to you dave...

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
For if you are living in the flesh, you are going to die, and if you are putting to death the practices of the body, you are living. Rom. 8:13.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
But the product of sin is death and the gift of God is eternal life in our Lord Yeshua The Messiah. Rom. 6:23.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Kill therefore your members that are in Earth: fornication, impurity, diseases, wicked desires, greed ( which is idol worship ), Col.3:5.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Neither shall you present your members as weapons of evil for sin, but present yourselves to God as people who are alive from the dead and your members shall be weapons for the righteousness of God. Rom. 6:13.

1 Peter 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And take care of yourself, that you present yourself perfectly before God, a laborer without shame, who preaches the word of truth straightforwardly. 2 Timothy 2:15.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Or do you not know that evil men do not inherit The Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; no fornicators, neither worshipers of idols, neither adulterers, neither sexual molesters, neither males lying down with males,



Only those who love God...truly love Him as He commands us to love Him, will enter into eternal life with Him...none other...


Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Blessed is the man who endures temptation, for when he has been tested, he will receive a crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. James 1:112.


...and how does God's holy word tell us how it is that we show our love to Him...?...


Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
“If you love me, keep my commandments.” John 14:15.



...and ONLY the man who loves God is known by Him. 1 Corinthians 8:3.







May God bless you,
Verna.



1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Do not be deceived.
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:40 AM
 
Location: CentralAlabama
173 posts, read 134,240 times
Reputation: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave737driver View Post
as a practical matter you are onced saved always saved. the gifts of God, faith and salvation , are irrevocable....

and trying to apply God's justice (which was satisfied in Christ) on a forum like this makes you a judge and you make yourself into a God...

no one on here is qualified to make value judgments about who on here gets in or doesn't ..this is so carnal and pious..
All an Christian can say to that is "AMEN". Some people want to mix up scripture that deals with salvation with those dealing with reward or physical death and end up with a confusing mess in the process. One must do as scripture say's and rightly divide the word of truth. Then it all makes perfect sense.

Unless Jesus lied or "Never" has arrived our "Eternal Life" is "Eternal Life".

John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:30 AM
 
4,684 posts, read 6,085,355 times
Reputation: 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Absolutely there is more one can do outside the Ten Commandments that can and will cause them not to go to heaven...and sure...going to a building to gather on Sunday...or any other day or night of the week to fellowship and sing praises together to God is definately not one of them...our forefathers of the Bible and all those that followed gathered together to do the same...but they never forsook keeping the Sabbath...the seventh day (Saturday) Sabbath...The Fourth Commandment.

It is when one forsakes in honoring the fourth commandment that one now tinkers with the death of his/her very soul...for sin IS the transgression of the law of God...the Ten Commandments...and this is well documented throughout the entire Holy Bible. All one needs is to have the ability to read His truth in the Light of Truth...but the only way one will obtain this ability is to believe in the word of God. Unbelief...or disobedience (one in the same) prohibits one from "seeing" and then responding by "doing" this truth when they read it...over and over and over again.
But how can one actually keep a 7th day Sabbath the way it was kept in the OT. Our society is pretty much set up as Sunday as a day of rest. I work M-F and I can't go the bank, get my car fixed, and many other things on a Sunday since most businesses are closed on Sunday, so if I followed the example in Nehamiah about no purchases on the Sabbath, there is many things I can't do for the fact that many of these places are closed Sunday and not open before or after I get to off work during the week.

And to me when one accepts christ, there actions should be holy all 7 days of the week, not just one extra special day. Granted we all need a day of rest, I see it as a beneficial gift from God and not a mandatory requirement in our times. Do you seriously think God will be angry if a beliver cleaned there house or washed there car on a Saturday with all the other unbelivers out there who do wicked things all day everyday.
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:29 AM
 
2,541 posts, read 2,525,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
But how can one actually keep a 7th day Sabbath the way it was kept in the OT. Our society is pretty much set up as Sunday as a day of rest. I work M-F and I can't go the bank, get my car fixed, and many other things on a Sunday since most businesses are closed on Sunday, so if I followed the example in Nehamiah about no purchases on the Sabbath, there is many things I can't do for the fact that many of these places are closed Sunday and not open before or after I get to off work during the week.

And to me when one accepts christ, there actions should be holy all 7 days of the week, not just one extra special day. Granted we all need a day of rest, I see it as a beneficial gift from God and not a mandatory requirement in our times. Do you seriously think God will be angry if a beliver cleaned there house or washed there car on a Saturday with all the other unbelivers out there who do wicked things all day everyday.
You are right, We can't keep the Sabbath as establish for the Jews because we are Gentle nations. Our social order is differant. The national Sabbath command was to the Jews only and those Gentles who lived in their land where also expected to honor it.

We are a law unto ourselves as scripture says and yet with the work of the law written in our hearts very similar to but not exactly the same as given to the Jews. The Scripture says let every one be persuaded in their own mind as to what Sabbath day is for them and not to judge others if they don't keep the same day or even if they call each day the same.

The command to rest is such a good one that it was one of Ten Commandments to insure rest rather than tyrany such as in slavery and the endless persuit of material gain. The need of rest is basic to all mens welfare and good health and all should rest but now it is not according to a particular day in this New Covenant era. Rest/Sabbath was given to man as Jesus said and not man for the Sabbath to serve if it means destroying the very fabric of soceity and the ongoing needs thereof.

If Jesus did many things on the Jewish Sabbath in order that needs be met, how much more are we allowed to, seeing we were not even given the Jewish Sabbath as a strict commandment. Yet all men should find time to rest because the spirit is joined to the body and rest is for our well balanced health sake. The meaning of Sabbath is a good one and shows that God is out for our welfare. The principal of Sabbath is rest and still needed but it is not according to the law of any particular day.

Therefore choose your Sabbath as choice is given under the New Covenant. Or even if you do not call it Sabbath choose your time of rest or should I say your time of rest is imposed by the work schedule you might have.

I have a friend who's wife works seven days a week of her own choosing but he has saturday and sundays off. It is putting a strain on their relationship. He has told me so. He wants time with her. So you see how a day off would help and it wouldn't matter if it was saturday or sunday. In their case any mutual day of rest would help.
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 7,625,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
But how can one actually keep a 7th day Sabbath the way it was kept in the OT. Our society is pretty much set up as Sunday as a day of rest. I work M-F and I can't go the bank, get my car fixed, and many other things on a Sunday since most businesses are closed on Sunday, so if I followed the example in Nehamiah about no purchases on the Sabbath, there is many things I can't do for the fact that many of these places are closed Sunday and not open before or after I get to off work during the week.

And to me when one accepts christ, there actions should be holy all 7 days of the week, not just one extra special day. Granted we all need a day of rest, I see it as a beneficial gift from God and not a mandatory requirement in our times. Do you seriously think God will be angry if a beliver cleaned there house or washed there car on a Saturday with all the other unbelivers out there who do wicked things all day everyday.
This is faith. To honor God by not only observing the Fourth Commandment, but by honoring Him and showing Him you love Him by observing all Ten of them.

To fully submitt to God everything YOU want to do and everything YOU think is a priority and most important to YOU is what God wants from YOU. You can only succeed in keeping the Sabbath by fully trusting in Him that He will, without a doubt, take care of all your needs...trusting fully in Him that He knows everything you need now and in the future, and He knows and has a plan for you...and to let go and allow Him to direct your path forward ever closer to Him.

This costs everything...and unless you count the cost and then decide nothing is more valuable to you than pleasing God and showing Him you truly do love Him with all of your heart, soul, and strength, you will not REMEMBER to keep His Sabbath holy. he sees and knows your heart...and if you truly do love Him and want to abide in His love and Him abide with you...you have to honor His commandments...or else you are nothing more than a wllfull, wanton sinner. Could be a sinner who is faithfully seeking His truth by listening and receiving a truth that is foreign to them...or on the other hand...could be a sinner who refuses to let go of their pride long enough to contemplate that maybe...just maybe you should observe ALL TEN of His commandments to assure your destiny will include eternal life with Him in His Kingdom. He will accept nothng less from you if this destiny is what you desire over and above your own worldly cares and desires.

If you keep His commandments...ALL TEN of them...and call them a joy...you will know what it is to be truly blessed beyond measure...pouring over.

Fear and pride will prevent you from knowing God and Him knowing you in a faithful, loving relationship.


God Bless you,
Verna.
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:50 PM
 
381 posts, read 795,380 times
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the problem is no one can keep the whole law or be perfect through their life in keeping ordinances, commands and rules.... this is why Jesus died...to nail these requirements to the cross


when i can attend church i love to...i love to offer praise and thanks in the assembly but for memand many others around the world in the transportation business, this is not possible. so i carr my bible..

if i had to love thinking i was under law and therefore wrath instead of grace and mercy from the shed blood of christ then woe is me..

verna, i John 7-10 is pretty much an unlimited credit line of forgiveness for these and other sins that are simply living in a modern world with all its responsibilities...


but if doing what you believe makes you happy then great..do it with joy..... but don't condemn others whose faith has revealed to them that they are not condemned

why is my liberty judged by another man's conscience? Paul said
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:19 PM
 
951 posts, read 1,046,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Receiving the Gospel has nothing to do with keeping holy days.

Again, this has nothing to do with receiving the Gospel.

This also has nothing to do with receiving the Gospel.

This too has nothing to do with receiving the Gospel.

The verb tenses do matter, and this scripture contradicts your theology. Those who are in the flesh (without the Spirit) are not obeying God. Nor can they do anything to please God:

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Spiritual life begins in the Spirit. It is then, in the Spirit, that we have power to obey, that is: to believe the Gospel.

Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Saul was never sealed with the Spirit. Those who believe the Gospel are:

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

I don't doubt you feel like this. Those under law have no subjective knowledge of grace.

However, being under grace, I know Jesus' righteousness is imputed to me. All of it. Jesus' good works and keeping the commandments are accredited to my account. Jesus fulfilled the entire law for me. My sins were imputed to Him and His righteousness was imputed to me.

Jesus also died for my sins, and justified me personally, on the cross. And I believe what scripture tells me, here:

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Look my friend: Jesus justifies the ungodly. And, believing this I know I'm imputed with His righteousness. There is nothing the law can add to this righteousness.

I'm glad you brought up Jude 4. This verse is speaking directly to you my friend. Not only are you relying on the law to justify you before God, you're also denying Christ, the One who is (present tense) justifying you.

The very thing you're trying to accomplish is being spoken of by Jude: Turning the Grace of God into your own works based righteousness, rather than trusting in Christ's righteousness. You're denying Christ by doing so.

Here, read more of what scripture tells us concerning this:

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Like Israel, you're simply ignorant of the faith:

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Don't you see this tthtf? When you read the scriptures, you're very much like Israel. You're trying to establish your own righteousness through the law.

When you, as well as Israel, hear the Gospel, it does not come to you in power or with much assurance. And for good reason. You're both under the law, not grace.

Here is how those, under grace, receive the Gospel:

1Th 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

Do you see that? The Gospel comes to those who believe in power, in the Holy Ghost and with much assurance.

Here is that Gospel:

1Co 15:1 MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

That is the Good News my friend, believe it . Those who do are imputed with Christ's righteousness.
No, you must obey God to receive His Holy Spirit! God is no respecter of persons.

Modern Christianity is participating in Baal worship and can't see it!

Now, you do not know the true Gospel! You use Paul's writings but Luke in Acts 28 shows that Paul was teaching two things:

Acts 28:
31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Paul's writings make you believe that "teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ" is actually the Gospel.

I Cor 15:1-2 Paul is talking about the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. (see your listing above in green)

I Cor 15:3-4 Paul is talking about "those things which concerning the Lord Jesus Christ."
(see your listing above in blue. Notice: "which I also received" in verse 3)

That is NOT true. Christ was a messenger who came to deliver a message to this world. You claim that message was that He died for our sins. That is NOT the Gospel of the Kingdom of God!

I can further show you that what you think is the Gospel is not true.

Luke 9:
1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

Here in Luke 9, Christ sends them out preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.

This has a parallel account in Matthew 10:

Mat 10:
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

So, the 12 were preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.

Now, look at Matthew 16:

Matt 16:
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

So, Christ sent the 12 out to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God and then we find later that He told the disciples about His death and resurrection.

Modern Christianity has hijacked the Gospel of the Kingdom of God and replaced it with a Gospel about the person of Jesus Christ.

Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong used to point this out over the air waves and he stated that his preaching of the Gospel is the first time in 18 1/2 centuries that the true Gospel of the Kingdom of God is being preached to the world. He used to have a lot of angry people writing in and telling him he was so arrogant to say that over the radio but it is the absolute Truth.

The true Gospel of the Kingdom of God has been suppressed and very few know what the true Gospel is.

Now the death (Passover) of Christ is very important and it is the first step in God's Master Plan of Salvation for mankind, but it is NOT the Gospel of the Kingdom of God!

Please read the following two items. It will make clear this subject. You have never really heard the true Gospel of the Kingdom of God.

Title: Just What Do You Mean...Kingdom of God?
Author: Herbert W Armstrong
Date: 1962, 1972
Type: Booklet
Type Media: PDF

http://www.cog-web-svc.com/hwa/books...df/kingdom.pdf

Title: What Is the True Gospel?
Publication: The Ambassador College Bible Correspondence Course
Publisher: Ambassador College
Editor-in-Chief: Herbert W Armstrong
Total Lessons: 32
Lesson No: 18
Date Published: 1983
Type Media: PDF

http://www.cog-web-svc.com/hwa/cc/cc-32/cc32-18.pdf
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:11 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,921,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
No, you must obey God to receive His Holy Spirit! God is no respecter of persons.
Those who are in the flesh (those without the Spirit) CANNOT obey God. They are spiritually D-E-A-D.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The natural man CANNOT receive the Spirit, nor can the natural man obey God. Your theology here is completely backwards.

Your theology needs to put first things first. One must first be born of the Spirit (brought to life with a new spirit) in order to receive the Spirit. Here is how scripture portrays the timing of such events:

First:

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Second:

Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Quote:
Now, you do not know the true Gospel! You use Paul's writings but Luke in Acts 28 shows that Paul was teaching two things:

Acts 28:
31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Paul's writings make you believe that "teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ" is actually the Gospel.

I Cor 15:1-2 Paul is talking about the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. (see your listing above in green)

I Cor 15:3-4 Paul is talking about "those things which concerning the Lord Jesus Christ."
(see your listing above in blue. Notice: "which I also received" in verse 3)
You seem very confused here. There is nothing in Acts 28 to support your bizarre attempt of trying to separate Christ from the Gospel, or separate Christ from Paul's preaching of the Kingdom.

The words Paul spoke in 1 Cor:15:3-4 are specifically referred to as being the Gospel in verse 1. If that understanding is not obvious to anyone reading it, I can't really help you, or them. Take an English refresher course...or simply just learn how to read.

However, to answer your rather odd interpretation: The Gospel (or, if you prefer, the Gospel of the Kingdom) is about Jesus. Jesus is the Good News, my friend. And yes, Paul also received the Gospel he proclaimed. It was given to him by revelation from Jesus:

Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Quote:
...You claim that message was that He died for our sins. That is NOT the Gospel of the Kingdom of God!
That Christ died for our sins IS the good news. That in-fact IS the proclamation of the Gospel. And that is exactly what Paul proclaims the Gospel to be. Read it here:

1Co 15:1 MOREOVER, brethren, I declare (Greek: present tense) unto you the gospel which I preached (Greek: past tense) unto you, which also ye have received (Greek: past tense), and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered (Greek: past tense) unto you first of all that which I also received (Greek: past tense), how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

If you'll notice, what Paul is declaring (present tense) is the Gospel. Paul reminds those at Corinth what it is he preached to them (past tense). It is the exact same Gospel that Paul himself received from Jesus by revelation.

Paul defines the Gospel in many places within this epistle to them, examples here:

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

This is the same Gospel spoken of by Jesus, when Jesus said:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

It is the Gospel that Paul preached to both Jews and Greeks:

1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Paul being made a minister of it:

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

That both you and Herbert Armstrong failed to understand the proclamation of the Gospel is painfully obvious. You do realize that the Gospel is hid to those who are lost, right?:

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

However, the Gospel is not hid to those who believe.

Quote:
I can further show you that what you think is the Gospel is not true.

Luke 9:
1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

Here in Luke 9, Christ sends them out preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.

This has a parallel account in Matthew 10:

Mat 10:
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

So, the 12 were preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.

Now, look at Matthew 16:

Matt 16:
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

So, Christ sent the 12 out to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God and then we find later that He told the disciples about His death and resurrection.
Jesus "showed" them "how" He's death and resurrection would come about. The Gospel had already been given a clearly defined theme through Issiah (Chapter 53). John the Baptist clearly understood this theme, as did the disciples who heard John and then immediately followed Jesus:

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Joh 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
Joh 1:37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.

What they did not understood were the details of "how" these events would take place. How He would suffer for the sins of the world, etc.:

Mat 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Quote:
Modern Christianity has hijacked the Gospel of the Kingdom of God and replaced it with a Gospel about the person of Jesus Christ.
Jesus is the Gospel, my friend. Jesus is the Good News. The Gospel is ONLY about Jesus. The simplicity of the Gospel is Christ crucified for our sins, buried and resurrected for our justification. That is the Gospel proclamation. That is the Good News.

Quote:
Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong used to point this out...
If what you're posting here is what Herbert Armstrong believed, then he, like you, never really believed the Gospel.
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:19 AM
 
951 posts, read 1,046,158 times
Reputation: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Those who are in the flesh (those without the Spirit) CANNOT obey God. They are spiritually D-E-A-D.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Note: I try to keep God's Spiritual Law and His Sabbaths. I try to render unto God the things that are God's. God's Sabbaths are a special time that to trample on is to sin and to show your enmity against God! Your mind is obviously not subject to the "law of God" as you quoted in Romans 8:7.

You obviously are the one in the flesh or else you would know that the law of God which is to be written in our hearts and minds and you would want to please God and to keep His Sabbaths Holy. The anti-Sabbath people do not have any respect at all toward God in their disdain for His Holy Sabbaths and they try to claim that is Christ's will. It is not! Christ and the early apostles kept God's Commandments and kept God's Sabbaths Holy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
The natural man CANNOT receive the Spirit, nor can the natural man obey God. Your theology here is completely backwards.
Your theology is totally backward. Your mind is enmity against God and refused to keep His Commandments and Sabbaths.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Your theology needs to put first things first. One must first be born of the Spirit (brought to life with a new spirit) in order to receive the Spirit. Here is how scripture portrays the timing of such events:

First:

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Second:

Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Again, you are the one who is not walking according to the Commandments of God. You are the one who does not have God's Holy Spirit in you guiding you to obey God or else you would keep God's Sabbath's Holy. God called me and the first thing He showed me was that His Seventh Day Sabbath is to be kept Holy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
You seem very confused here. There is nothing in Acts 28 to support your bizarre attempt of trying to separate Christ from the Gospel, or separate Christ from Paul's preaching of the Kingdom.
Sir, you are the one who is confused. The Gospel of the Kingdom of God is the true Gospel! The teaching about the Person of Christ is NOT the message that God gave Jesus Christ to preach to the world.

Now, Satan has deceived the whole world as we read in Revelation 12:9. This would exclude only those who have come out of this present evil world and who are obeying the true God and the true Jesus Christ.

Mark 1:
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

So, Mark clearly states that the Gospel that Christ preached was the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.
It is in this same context that Christ said repent and believe the Gospel. Which Gospel? The Gospel of the Kingdom of God!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
The words Paul spoke in 1 Cor:15:3-4 are specifically referred to as being the Gospel in verse 1. If that understanding is not obvious to anyone reading it, I can't really help you, or them. Take an English refresher course...or simply just learn how to read.
That is an insult. I did read it and I explained it correctly as Luke pointed out in Acts 28:

Acts 28:
31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Luke shows 2 things that Paul did: 1) Preached the Gospel that Christ preached concerning the Kingdom of God and 2) he taught those things concerning Christ.

Here is another:

Acts 8:
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Again, Luke shows 2 things that Philip preached: 1) the Kingdom of God 2) Christ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
However, to answer your rather odd interpretation: The Gospel (or, if you prefer, the Gospel of the Kingdom) is about Jesus. Jesus is the Good News, my friend. And yes, Paul also received the Gospel he proclaimed. It was given to him by revelation from Jesus:

Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
You are saying nothing here. This does not refute what I am saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
That Christ died for our sins IS the good news. That in-fact IS the proclamation of the Gospel. And that is exactly what Paul proclaims the Gospel to be. Read it here:

1Co 15:1 MOREOVER, brethren, I declare (Greek: present tense) unto you the gospel which I preached (Greek: past tense) unto you, which also ye have received (Greek: past tense), and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered (Greek: past tense) unto you first of all that which I also received (Greek: past tense), how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

If you'll notice, what Paul is declaring (present tense) is the Gospel. Paul reminds those at Corinth what it is he preached to them (past tense). It is the exact same Gospel that Paul himself received from Jesus by revelation.
Again, this does not refute what I am saying.

Paul himself in 2 Corinthians makes a distinction between the Gospel and the Person of Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him [the margin renders this last phrase “with me”].

Paul distinguishes between the teaching of a false Jesus Christ and that of a false Gospel of the Kingdom of God. These are two separate things!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Paul defines the Gospel in many places within this epistle to them, examples here:

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

This is the same Gospel spoken of by Jesus, when Jesus said:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

It is the Gospel that Paul preached to both Jews and Greeks:

1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Paul being made a minister of it:

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
What you are quoting does not refute what I am saying. Paul taught two separate things and you know it. You are the one who is combining the two as so many false ministers have done in this present evil world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
That both you and Herbert Armstrong failed to understand the proclamation of the Gospel is painfully obvious. You do realize that the Gospel is hid to those who are lost, right?:

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

However, the Gospel is not hid to those who believe.
If you can't overthrow the message, then you start personally attacking the messenger. I guess that is a sign that you have lost the argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Jesus "showed" them "how" He's death and resurrection would come about. The Gospel had already been given a clearly defined theme through Issiah (Chapter 53). John the Baptist clearly understood this theme, as did the disciples who heard John and then immediately followed Jesus:

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Joh 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
Joh 1:37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.

What they did not understood were the details of "how" these events would take place. How He would suffer for the sins of the world, etc.:

Mat 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
You left out the verses following Matthew 16:21

Peter did not believe that Christ would be killed and Christ had to correct him even though Peter had gone out earlier preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom along with the other 11.

Also chapter 17 discusses the Kingdom of God again, which Peter could understand.

Remember, many of the disciples did not believe Christ would rise after 3 days.

Luke 24:
13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;
23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Jesus is the Gospel, my friend. Jesus is the Good News. The Gospel is ONLY about Jesus. The simplicity of the Gospel is Christ crucified for our sins, buried and resurrected for our justification. That is the Gospel proclamation. That is the Good News.

If what you're posting here is what Herbert Armstrong believed, then he, like you, never really believed the Gospel.
The true Gospel that Christ preached to the world was the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. Notice the subject of Christ's parables. I'll list a few. Matthew uses the phrase kingdom of heaven instead of kingdom of God.

Matt 13:
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:


Matt 13:
31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:


Matt 13:
33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.


Matt 13:
44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.


Matt 13:
45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:


Matt 13:
47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:


Matt 13:
52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

Again from Mark 1.

Mark 1:
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Notice, the word "repent". That is the part about Christ. You must repent of your sins and Christ's crucifixion will cover your past sins. The repentance part is the part about Christ. The Gospel of the Kingdom of God is what Christ actually preached to the world and one must believe to be saved.

Sir, if you truly have received and believed the Gospel of the Kingdom of God then you would keep God's Sabbaths holy. I wouldn't have to point that out to you if you truly believed it. You would also be keeping the Feast of Trumpets which is less than a week away. The Feast of Trumpets pictures the dramatic return of Jesus Christ to actually take over the governments of this present evil world and to set up the Government of God on this earth. This is the good news that the whole world has been waiting for. The true Saints will be resurrected and rule with Christ in this Kingdom of God. Again, this is the Good News and the true Gospel that one must believe.

So, Repent and believe the Gospel of the Kingdom of God!!!
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:42 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,921,541 times
Reputation: 336
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Quote:
Note: I try to keep God's Spiritual Law and His Sabbaths. I try to render unto God the things that are God's...
Look what you're saying: "I try...", "I try...". I don't doubt that you are trying. And trying so for the wrong reasons. You're very much like Israel, trying to establish your own righteousness after the law.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

And the reason both you and Israel do so is that you've both stumbled at that stumblingstone: Christ.

Don't you see this? If you actually believe the Gospel, then you KNOW that keeping the commandments will not forgive you, justify or reconcile you to God.

Look at what the Gospel proclaims to YOU:

Your sins ARE forgiven - Christ died for YOUR sins.

You ARE justified - Christ is risen. Christ is justifying the ungodly. Right now. Present tense. Christ is justifying YOU.

You WERE reconciled to God - God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing YOUR sins against you.

That is the Good News of the Gospel. Those who believe the Gospel are imputed with Christ's righteousness.

Believe the Gospel my friend. Seek Christ's righteousness first.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

(Responding to the rest of your post would simply be fruitless at this point.)
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