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Old 09-16-2012, 10:07 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,919,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
Wrong!
When Jesus said: The Kingdom of God is "within" you, Jesus was speaking of His Kingdom being within our spirit, our most inner being. Not our flesh.

Quote:
John 7:
1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.
Quote:

1 John 3:
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
The deeds spoken of by Jesus and John are the works of the flesh, as scripture tells us here:

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

If you'll notice, it's the works of the flesh that are (Greek: present tense) being manifest .

The Kingdom of God does not reside within the flesh, my friend, where such works emanate. Good things cannot produce evil, nor can corrupt things produce good:

Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Nor can flesh and blood inherit the kingdom.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Like your mentor Armstrong, you're simple unable to make these distinctions.
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Old 09-16-2012, 10:18 AM
 
951 posts, read 1,045,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
When Jesus said: The Kingdom of God is "within" you, Jesus was speaking of His Kingdom being within our spirit. Not our flesh.

The deeds spoken of by Jesus and John are the works of the flesh, as scripture tells us here:

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

If you'll notice, it's the works of the flesh that are (Greek: present tense) being manifest .

The Kingdom of God does not reside within the flesh, my friend, where such works emanate. Good things cannot produce evil, nor can corrupt things produce good:

Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Nor can flesh and blood inherit the kingdom.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Like your mentor Armstrong, you're simple unable to make these distinctions.
Wrong again!

Eternal life is only possible by receiving God's Holy Spirit. And God's Holy Spirit (was not given until Acts 2) is only given to those who obey Him. These Pharisees may have been obeying God on a physical carnal level but they lacked the "faith in Christ" in order to receive the "faith OF Christ." Actually, they were spiritually sons of Satan the Devil and cut off from God as we read in other scriptures.

The true saints have both:

Revelation 14:
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
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Old 09-16-2012, 11:06 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,919,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
Wrong again!

Eternal life is only possible by receiving God's Holy Spirit. And God's Holy Spirit (was not given until Acts 2) is only given to those who obey Him. These Pharisees may have been obeying God on a physical carnal level but they lacked the "faith in Christ" in order to receive the "faith OF Christ." Actually, they were spiritually sons of Satan the Devil and cut off from God as we read in other scriptures.

The true saints have both:

Revelation 14:
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Having eternal life, subjectively, of whom all that believe the Gospel have, and having the Kingdom of God within, objectively, of whom all created in the image of God have, are two separate, though related, scriptural truths.

Regarding eternal life, prior to Pentecost:

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The words "heareth", "believeth" and "hath", are all in the Greek present tense. This was spoken by Jesus, prior to Pentecost, to those believing.

Again, simply more of your scriptural ignorance here.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:02 PM
 
951 posts, read 1,045,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Having eternal life, subjectively, of whom all that believe the Gospel have, and having the Kingdom of God within, objectively, of whom all created in the image of God have, are two separate, though related, scriptural truths.

Regarding eternal life, prior to Pentecost:

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The words "heareth", "believeth" and "hath", are all in the Greek present tense. This was spoken by Jesus, prior to Pentecost, to those believing.

Again, simply more of your scriptural ignorance here.
No!

You have to believe on Christ and do what He says to do to receive God's Holy Spirit to eventually be born again in the Kingdom of God.

Romans 8:
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

You need to get back to the basics and quit playing with the Greek.
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:22 PM
 
18,183 posts, read 16,747,601 times
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Quote:
What will keep one from inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven?
Oneself.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:41 AM
 
Location: Birmingham, AL
77 posts, read 73,984 times
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Only the 144,000 will be in heaven when the time comes, and it's not any of us. And for the 20th times, nobody's going to hell "a fiery place underground", but hell (a grave).
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:59 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,919,141 times
Reputation: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
No!
I see, so Jesus was wrong about believers having eternal life prior to Pentecost...?!?!? And I'm to believe you and Armstrong, because you both say so? Moderator cut: deleted

Well, if you don't believe Jesus, maybe you'll believe John. John specifically states that those believing have eternal life. And, like Jesus, John said this too, prior to Pentecost:

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

If you'll take the time to research it, the verb being translated as "hath" (Greek: εχει) is also in the present tense, indicative mood, just like Joh 5:24. IOW: Those believing, prior to Pentecost, had eternal life.

Obviously, the doctrine you're teaching is at complete odds with scripture.

Quote:
You have to believe on Christ and do what He says to do to receive God's Holy Spirit to eventually be born again in the Kingdom of God.

Romans 8:
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
I'm not sure why you believe that this particular text somehow contradicts what was plainly taught by Jesus and John.

Quote:
You need to get back to the basics and quit playing with the Greek.
[mod] edit [mod]

Moderator cut: Orphaned response

Last edited by june 7th; 09-18-2012 at 12:55 PM..
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:14 PM
 
951 posts, read 1,045,355 times
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The New Testament Church is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets with Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone.

And I do believe that God's Holy Spirit was given to the prophets and to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David and others.

When I stated the Holy Spirit was not given until Acts 2, I meant it was not made available to individuals unless God had a special job for them to do like the prophets in the Old Testament.

And your Armstrong bashing is improper.

Last edited by tthttf; 09-18-2012 at 12:37 PM..
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:24 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,919,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
When I stated the Holy Spirit was not given until Acts 2, I meant it was not made available to individuals unless God had a special job for them to do like the prophets in the Old Testament.
That's not what the text actually says though. There is nothing in the text that says whosoever is a prophet, or whosoever has a special job to do, has eternal life; but rather he that believes, has eternal life. Read it:

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

And, there were many who did believe:

Joh 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

Joh 10:42 And many believed on him there.

So, I'm not sure why you persist with your doctrine that you stated earlier, shown below:

Quote:
Eternal life is only possible by receiving God's Holy Spirit. And God's Holy Spirit (was not given until Acts 2)....
How are you reconciling your doctrines with what Jesus and John the Baptist taught? Perhaps having eternal life does not necessarily imply, or equate, with having the fullness of the Spirit within; that is: believers with eternal life received further blessings and manifestations of God's grace at Pentecost (compare Joh 14:17 with Act 2:4) . Have you considered that possibility?

Quote:
And your Armstrong bashing is improper.
I'm simply pointing out, sarcastically perhaps, that Armstrong's teachings are not always scriptural, and you should be aware of it.
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:56 PM
 
951 posts, read 1,045,355 times
Reputation: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
That's not what the text actually says though. There is nothing in the text that says whosoever is a prophet, or whosoever has a special job to do, has eternal life; but rather he that believes, has eternal life. Read it:

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

And, there were many who did believe:

Joh 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

Joh 10:42 And many believed on him there.

So, I'm not sure why you persist with your doctrine that you stated earlier, shown below:

How are you reconciling your doctrines with what Jesus and John the Baptist taught? Perhaps having eternal life does not necessarily imply, or equate, with having the fullness of the Spirit within; that is: believers with eternal life received further blessings and manifestations of God's grace at Pentecost (compare Joh 14:7 with Act 2:4) . Have you considered that possibility?

I'm simply pointing out, sarcastically perhaps, that Armstrong's teachings are not always scriptural, and you should be aware of it.
No!
Ancient Israel did not have the Holy Spirit and could not obey. However, the Holy Spirit was given to the prophets and other individuals like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to do the job they had to do.

When the Holy Spirit was poured out on the New Testament Church, they could obey and keep God's Commandments but you do not believe in that. That is why you do not understand.

And you are leaving out verses in John 8 that show that these same people believed on Christ wanted to kill him. Just read a little farther down.

John 8:
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.


Peter on Pentecost in his inspired sermon said, Repent (quit disobeying God and start keeping the Commandments of God like Christ instructed) and be baptized and you will receive God's Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38). This is how one receives eternal life -- by receiving God's Holy Spirit and not by your heresy.

52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Like I said, you need to get back to the basics and quit playing around with the Greek.

Man is like an egg in that one must be impregnated spiritually with God's Holy Spirit to eventually be born again into the Kingdom of God. Your heresy is just that -- heresy.

Wake Up!
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