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Old 09-20-2012, 01:39 PM
 
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The Gospel of the Kingdom is as Jesus said, " I am the way, the truth, and the life." And it is written, "Let no man deceive you about how simple it is to worship God." He alone is the truth and he alone is the teacher of the way by grace for each soul.

JN 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Only by grace can truth be taught, not the law. The law is by the letter but truth is by the Spirit to those who come to the person of Jesus the Anointed One who gives of His Spirit to be "born again" so that one can "hear what the Spirit is saying."
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:51 PM
 
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If you'll go back and read my post, I indicated that in John's narrative, Jesus takes a moment to focus His words upon those who believed, verses 31 to 32. Then, John's narrative continues, starting at verse 33, and records the arguments of the unbelievers, and Jesus' response to the unbelievers, concluding at verse 59.
No, there is no indication in the verses that suggest that. Christ spoke to those who believed on Him and they responded. There are no words that says He is speaking to a different group. You adding your words to make it appear that way.

Quote:
Yes, you did add directly to the text. Your own interpretation...lol...which was rather bizarre to say the least.
No, I did not. Other posters insert comments that way. [text] I used square brackets to differentiate between the parenthetical thoughts (text) that are part of the sciptures. You are falsely accusing me of something that I did not do and yet you are inserting your words into your explanation of the scriptures to say that the non-believers answered Christ after it says plainly that He was addressing His words to those who believed on Him. You are the one in error and who is inserting your own words into the scriptures trying to alter what they are really saying.

Quote:
I added nothing to what Jesus said. And yes, Jesus did address those believing on Him in verses 31 to 32. The remaining portion, resuming at verse 33, focuses on what the unbelievers said and Jesus' response to them.
There you go again. No words are in the scriptures to support what you are saying at all. No parenthetical thoughts were inserted in the scriptures saying that. You added that thought.

Quote:
Now, I want to return to verse 30: If you'll notice in verse 30, John indicates (by divine inspiration) that many believed on Jesus.

Joh 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

If we go back a few chapters in John, Jesus specifically taught that those who believed on Him had eternal life. This is important, because Jesus did not say that those who believed could have eternal life, or might have eternal life if they do something else, or probably will have eternal life in the future; but rather Jesus said they have eternal life, using the present tense, right then, while Jesus was speaking. Here is that text:

Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Is it your position that those in John 8:30 did not believe on Jesus, nor did they have eternal life? And if so, how can you possibly arrive at that conclusion?

We're not moving beyond this point, my friend...
Matthew 19:
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.


Christ says plainly that you must keep the commandments to have eternal life. Is that all there is to it? Just keep the Commandments?

You cannot see that what you are saying is just part of what is required of a true Christian!

You must obey God and keep the Commandments as well as believe in, believe on, and actually believe all that Christ says! And Christ was the one who spoke the Ten Commandments to ancient Israel!

Wake Up!
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:25 PM
 
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Matthew 19:16-22

New King James Version (NKJV)

Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[a] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good?[b] No one is good but One, that is, God.[c] But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’[d] and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”[e]
20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth.[f] What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.




The point of these verses WHEN READ IN ITS CONTEXT are not about following each and every 10 commandments for eternal life, but rather is saying that your main focus should not be on the acquisition of earthly material goods, but instead on living a morally sound life (which the are treasures that you will build in heaven) because the stuff you pile up here on earth is temporary and can be stolen or destroyed, but good deeds are everlasting and cannot be taken from you.
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Matthew 19:16-22

New King James Version (NKJV)

Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[a] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good?[b] No one is good but One, that is, God.[c] But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’[d] and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”[e]
20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth.[f] What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.




The point of these verses WHEN READ IN ITS CONTEXT are not about following each and every 10 commandments for eternal life, but rather is saying that your main focus should not be on the acquisition of earthly material goods, but instead on living a morally sound life (which the are treasures that you will build in heaven) because the stuff you pile up here on earth is temporary and can be stolen or destroyed, but good deeds are everlasting and cannot be taken from you.
That is so true but Truths are like diamonds with many facets. Another of which is, Jesus did not say you need to keep the Sabbath.
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:41 PM
 
4,684 posts, read 6,078,807 times
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Revelation 14:6-13

New King James Version (NKJV)

The Proclamations of Three Angels

6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
8 And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon[a] is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those[b] who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me,[c] “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”




Again when read in its context what is verse 12 really talking about when read it with the verses before and after it. It is talking about endurance of the saints and not taking the mark of the beast. It is clearly saying during the final 7 year period those who dont take the mark will gain eternal life.



Despite some false teaching going around, going to church on Sunday IS NOT the mark of the beast
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:03 PM
 
951 posts, read 1,045,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Matthew 19:16-22

New King James Version (NKJV)

Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[a] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good?[b] No one is good but One, that is, God.[c] But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’[d] and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”[e]
20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth.[f] What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.




The point of these verses WHEN READ IN ITS CONTEXT are not about following each and every 10 commandments for eternal life, but rather is saying that your main focus should not be on the acquisition of earthly material goods, but instead on living a morally sound life (which the are treasures that you will build in heaven) because the stuff you pile up here on earth is temporary and can be stolen or destroyed, but good deeds are everlasting and cannot be taken from you.
When God calls an individual, He brings one to repentance and grants one repentance from breaking His Spiritual Law so that after a person has repented and been baptized and received God's Holy Spirit their mind will start to no longer be hostile to God and that person will start to submit to the Spiritual Law of God! The person's carnal mind will begin to change to a spiritual mind.

Romans 8:
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

When one has repented he/she will not be playing with the scriptures to try and get out from obeying the Spiritual Law of God and will love God and keep God's Commandments. Hostility toward God and His Spiritual Law are the fruits of a carnal mind.

Now, Jesus Christ, the Word, the Spokesman, one who actually gave the Ten Commandments to ancient Israel told this young ruler what He needed to do to have eternal life -- keep the Commandments. When asked which, Christ listed some of Ten Commandments but not all. He only listed some of the commandments that applied to love toward neighbor. However, the ruler had an idol. His idol was his great wealth which Christ in effect told him to get rid of. The young ruler would not. It was too much for him to give up this idol of great wealth. He was therefore not showing love toward God which the Commandments 1-4 express.

Christ said there were two great Commandments which express love toward God and love toward neighbor. These two Great Commandments actually summarize the Ten Commandments.

Commandments 1-4 show love toward God.
Commandments 5-10 show love toward neighbor.

So, Christ was referring to all Ten when He only mentioned half of them. His original statement only stated to keep the Commandments.

He did not mean that we are NOT keep the first four Commandments as some who want to get as far away from God's Spiritual Law as possible (Romans 8:7) seem to believe. His statement about the 1st Great Commandment elsewhere shows that besides the Commandments that show love toward neighbor, one should also keep the 1st Great Commandment which shows love toward God and are expressed in keeping Commandments 1-4. Keeping God's Seventh Day Sabbath shows love to God. It honors Him as our Creator. Keeping Sunday is pagan and honors the pagan sun-god and shows disrespect toward the true God and the true Christ.

Now, Christ kept all Ten of the Ten Commandments and so are we to walk the same walk that He did and through the Power of God's Holy Spirit, we are to keep the Commandments of God as Christ did.

Remember, if you are hostile to God and do not want to keep God's Spiritual Law, Romans 8:7 identifies what kind of mind you have.
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:10 PM
 
951 posts, read 1,045,462 times
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Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
That is so true but Truths are like diamonds with many facets. Another of which is, Jesus did not say you need to keep the Sabbath.
Romans 8:7 identifies a mind that does not want to be subject to the law of God.

Romans 8:
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

A lawless attitude displays the fruits of a carnal mind that is not subject to the law of God.

God's Sabbath was/is/will be Holy Time to God, set apart for the worship of our Creator. No substitutes are allowed like sun-god worship on Sunday.

I would hope all will repent of Sabbath-breaking which in God's sight is a capital crime. Our nation is soon to be destroyed for all of our sins and Sabbath-breaking is one of our chief sins.

Thus, I warn....
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:28 PM
 
951 posts, read 1,045,462 times
Reputation: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Revelation 14:6-13

New King James Version (NKJV)

The Proclamations of Three Angels

6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
8 And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon[a] is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those[b] who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me,[c] “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”




Again when read in its context what is verse 12 really talking about when read it with the verses before and after it. It is talking about endurance of the saints and not taking the mark of the beast. It is clearly saying during the final 7 year period those who dont take the mark will gain eternal life.



Despite some false teaching going around, going to church on Sunday IS NOT the mark of the beast
I disagree.

I believe that Sunday-worship, Christmas, Easter, and other pagan days worshipped on by modern day Christians are the dreaded Mark of the Beast.

Whereas, the Seventh-Day Sabbath is a sign identifying God's people both physical and spiritual Israel.

The following material goes into a lot of detail and a lot of scriptures that is beyond the space or time provided in this one post:


The Mark of the Beast
http://www.cog-web-svc.com/hwa/books-booklets/pdf/mark.pdf


The "Mark of the Beast" Brands Satan's Followers!
http://www.cog-web-svc.com/hwa/cc/cc-58/cc58-31.pdf


Beware of the Day of the Sun!
http://www.cog-web-svc.com/hwa/cc/cc-58/cc58-30.pdf


Book of Revelation Unveiled at Last!
http://www.cog-web-svc.com/hwa/books...revelation.pdf


Key to the Book of Revelation
http://www.cog-web-svc.com/hwa/books...evelation2.pdf


Who is the Beast?
http://www.cog-web-svc.com/hwa/books.../pdf/beast.pdf


Who or What Is the Prophetic BEAST?
Who or What Is the Prophetic BEAST? by Herbert W. Armstrong


Chart showing prophecies of reign of Gentile kingdoms:
Who or What Is the Prophetic BEAST? — A Chart Showing Prophecies of Reign of Gentile Kingdoms
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
No, there is no indication in the verses that suggest that....
Of course there is, and why do keep making me repeat it to you?

Jesus specifically identifies those who wanted to kill him as being unbelievers:

Joh 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
Joh 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

Do you really not see this? How is it possible for you to conclude that those who believed on Him (v.30-32) were also, simultaneously, seeking to kill Him? How is that even a remotely possible answer? How can you even try to defend such a position? Your exegesis is simply untenable. It's contradictory. It's simply false. There is really nothing left to be said about it. Let it go, my friend.

Quote:
...You are falsely accusing me...
I believe I said you were ignorant, of which you are (and if I didn't, I'm saying it now ). I also said you inserted your interpretation directly into the text, which you did. Both are true...

My thinking here, if you're being honest with me, is that you're seriously indoctrinated by the teachings of Armstrongism; or, it's simply a case of very poor reading skills. Or, perhaps a combination of both.

Quote:
...No parenthetical thoughts were inserted in the scriptures...
There really didn't need to be. Jesus tells us directly that those who were seeking to kill him were unbelievers, not those whom John (by inspiration) identified as believing on Him. I realize this is difficult for you to grasp, however you have Jesus' very own words: They were unbelievers. NOT those who were believing on Him.

Quote:
Matthew 19:
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.


Christ says plainly that you must keep the commandments to have eternal life...
Yes, however Christ tells that only to those under the law and under it's guilt. Not to those who believe on Him and are under grace.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Quote:
You cannot see...
I see fine, thank-you. Still 20/20...
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
No. No. No!
Yes. Yes. Yes!

2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Will you not take time to hear and believe the Gospel my friend? Here it is, again:

1Co 15:1 MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

There is another scripture, if you should have any doubts of where you stand before Christ, that will warm your soul. Here it is:

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

It's all very good news. Please believe it today, my friend. They make beautiful words for a troubled soul.

Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 09-20-2012 at 11:22 PM.. Reason: text
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