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Old 09-21-2012, 05:05 AM
 
951 posts, read 1,045,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Of course there is, and why do keep making me repeat it to you?

Jesus specifically identifies those who wanted to kill him as being unbelievers:

Joh 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
Joh 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

Do you really not see this? How is it possible for you to conclude that those who believed on Him (v.30-32) were also, simultaneously, seeking to kill Him? How is that even a remotely possible answer? How can you even try to defend such a position? Your exegesis is simply untenable. It's contradictory. It's simply false. There is really nothing left to be said about it. Let it go, my friend.

I believe I said you were ignorant, of which you are (and if I didn't, I'm saying it now ). I also said you inserted your interpretation directly into the text, which you did. Both are true...

My thinking here, if you're being honest with me, is that you're seriously indoctrinated by the teachings of Armstrongism; or, it's simply a case of very poor reading skills. Or, perhaps a combination of both.

There really didn't need to be. Jesus tells us directly that those who were seeking to kill him were unbelievers, not those whom John (by inspiration) identified as believing on Him. I realize this is difficult for you to grasp, however you have Jesus' very own words: They were unbelievers. NOT those who were believing on Him.

Yes, however Christ tells that only to those under the law and under it's guilt. Not to those who believe on Him and are under grace.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

I see fine, thank-you. Still 20/20...
No. You are missing the point. Just believing on Christ is not enough as John 8 shows:

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They [The pronoun, "They" is used for the ones whom Christ addressed in the previous two verses 31-32. Remember Christ was talking "to those Jews which believed on him". They responded back to Christ and obviously, they were not going to continue in His word.] answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

Mr. Armstrong points this out.

Click here: John 8

John 8 shows that just believing on Christ is not enough. You have to really believe Christ and do as He says. This really illustrates how blind modern Christianity is. In earlier years, the sabbath-keepers really do what Christ says do and many were martyred by a church that killed (they did not kill them, but had the civil authorities put them to death) over 50,000,000 (50 million) "heretics" just because they not only believed on Christ, but they actually believed Christ and did what He said. Christ gave the Ten Commandments to ancient Israel and He also said if you would enter into life, keep the Commandments (Matthew 19:17). He said there were two great Commandments that show love toward God and love toward neighbor. In Matthew's account Christ said that keeping 5 of the last 6 of God's Ten Commandments shows love toward neighbor, the 2nd of the two Great Commandments. By implication the first four of the Ten Commandments show love to God. When you keep God's Seventh Day Sabbath you are honoring God as the Creator and showing love toward Him. In God's eyes those who defile the day He set aside as Holy time is a death penalty crime and when your day of judgment does come, you will have to give an account for profaning His holy Sabbaths. This shows that you are not being judged now or else you would fear God and keep His Commandments.

Christ set us and example.

Paul said to:

1 Cor 11:
1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Peter said:

1 Peter 2:
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps

Christ kept His Father's Commandments. He didn't just believe there was God.

James 2:
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Christ did not have a dead faith and believed on the Father only. He did what God the Father commanded to be done. Christ did not ignore His Father's Commandments like so many so-called Christians do today, He believed on God and actually believed God and kept His Father's Commandments and only spoke the words that God had Him to speak. He didn't come to do away with His Father's Commandments as these false ministers would have you believe.

Now, you are teaching men to disobey God and by belief only you can be in God's Kingdom. Faith or belief only is not enough, even the demons believe. Your dead faith will not save you. Your belief and faith must be a living faith and perform as Christ performed, walk in His steps and keep God's Commandment sand actually believe Christ and not just believe on Christ as those Jews who actually wanted to kill Him when Christ told them they were not free.

And you think you are free. You are not. (Do you want to kill me for telling you that?) You are under the influence of the god of this world if you keep all these pagan days of worship. You would think one would have enough spiritual vision to see that this modern so-called Christianity is in bondage and actually worships the god of this present evil world.

Christ (and Paul later) tells His followers to keep the Passover. What do modern Christians do? The avoid the Passover and keep the Resurrection and on the wrong day at that.

Christ never told anyone to celebrate His birth. And Christ was not born in the dead of winter on the winter solstice but was born at time when the shepherds were still out in the fields with their flocks at night, most likely in the late summer or early autumn (around this time of the year we are in now). What do modern Christians do? They make a holiday out of a day that Nimrod was born on and instead of giving gifts to Christ they exchange gifts among themselves.

Christ and the early apostles kept the Sabbaths both weekly and annual. What do modern so-called Christians do? They keep the pagan Sunday, which is as Constantine said the "venerable day of the Sun".

First Sunday Law enacted by Emperor Constantine -March, 321 A.D.

On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time [A.D. 321].)

Source: Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3 (5th ed.; New York: Scribner, 1902), p. 380, note 1.

The Keeping Of The Sun Day


The end of the law for you is just that, no more obeying God and no more being subject to His law. (see Romans 8:7 and Jude 4 for a rebuke against this type of attitude)

You are wrong! Dead wrong! True Christianity is more than just a dead belief on Christ or a dead faith. As Mr. Armstrong pointed out and as the scriptures reveal you must continue in Christ's word to be one of His true disciples.

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

And this verse sums it all up concerning a true Christian:

Revelation 14:
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Repent!

Last edited by tthttf; 09-21-2012 at 06:31 AM..
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:53 AM
 
951 posts, read 1,045,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Yes. Yes. Yes!

2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Will you not take time to hear and believe the Gospel my friend? Here it is, again:

1Co 15:1 MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

There is another scripture, if you should have any doubts of where you stand before Christ, that will warm your soul. Here it is:

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

It's all very good news. Please believe it today, my friend. They make beautiful words for a troubled soul.
False Teaching of "Believe on Christ" Only

Quote:
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
I'll let Paul himself set you straight:

Romans 6:
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid.....

By repentance and faith in Christ your past sins are forgiven. But that does not mean you can continue in sin. You have to repent of your sins and turn around and go the other way. You have to keep the Sabbath and all the Commandments of God. Just because you may not be a physical Israelite, does not mean you can keep commiting all the unrighteous acts and Commandment-breaking you once were guilty of.

Romans 8:7 and Jude 4 applies to those who want to keep on sinning and not have anything to do with obeying God and His Spiritual Law. They are not converted at all but believe on Satan the false Christ of this world who hates God and encourages disobedience and rebellion against God the Father.

Satan first deceived a third of the angels to turn and rebel against God, then he deceived Eve in taking the forbidden fruit and now in this end-time he is deceiving so-called Christians to disobey God and believe that either Christ fulfilled the Law for them and did all the necessary Commandment keeping for them or else they are claiming that God's Law has been completely done away with, both of which are Satanic lies. Satan truly has deceived all those that are part of this present evil world (Rev 12:9).

The Gospel of the Kingdom of God

You do not know the true Gospel of the Kingdom of God. This coming Kingdom is actually spoken of in the scriptures used on the annual Holy Days, especially in the Fall.

The Gospel of the Kingdom of God is the true Gospel! The teaching about the Person of Christ is NOT the Gospel of the Kingdom message that God gave Jesus Christ to preach to the world.

Now, Satan has deceived the whole world as we read in Revelation 12:9. This would exclude only those who have come out of this present evil world and who are obeying the true God and the true Jesus Christ.

Mark 1:
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

So, Mark clearly states that the Gospel that Christ preached was the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.
It is in this same context that Christ said repent and believe the Gospel. Which Gospel? The Gospel of the Kingdom of God!

Christ spoke in parables the Gospel of the Kingdom of God to the world, to hide the meaning because God is only calling a few in this period (pictured by God's Holy Day -- Feast of Weeks or Pentecost).

Matt 13:
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

Matt 13:
31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

Matt 13:
33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Matt 13:
44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

Matt 13:
45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

Matt 13:
47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

Matt 13:
52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

Again from Mark 1.

Mark 1:
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

You are NOT preaching and believing the true Gospel of the Kingdom of God!

Wake Up, before it is too late and repent!
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:45 AM
 
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Luke 10:25-28


25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”


-Once again another clear answer
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:00 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,919,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
No. You are missing the point. Just believing on Christ is not enough as John 8 shows:

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They [The pronoun, "They" is used for the ones whom Christ addressed in the previous two verses 31-32. Remember Christ was talking "to those Jews which believed on him". They responded back to Christ and obviously, they were not going to continue in His word.] answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
I'm not missing any point. Those within the audience consisted of two groups. Believers and unbelievers. The term "they" in v.33, if we stop reading at this word could identify either group. However, Jesus tells us further in the text to whom He is now speaking with: unbelievers.

If you'll also notice, the unbelievers answered back using the term "we" initially, and then repeated what Jesus had told the believers using the term "ye", rather than personally identifying with Jesus' words by using the term "we" again. And this is very telling at this point. The unbelievers were not the ones to whom Christ had just finished speaking to (v.31-32), and the unbelievers knew this. If the unbelievers were the ones being spoken to, they would have continued to use the more personal term "we" (rather than "ye") as they do in the remaining portion of their dialog with Christ.

Quote:
Mr. Armstrong points this out...
I really don't need Armstrong to point out anything. The text itself makes it very clear. And, why would anyone rely on the teachings of the dead, if alive in the Spirit? Again, your answers are very telling.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Quote:
John 8 shows that just believing on Christ is not enough...
Believing on Jesus, or anything else we do, is not what saves us, my friend. It is Christ alone that saves. It is Jesus alone who is the "enough". It is not our faith, or our works, or anything else that we do, that does the saving. Faith simply receives subjectively what Christ has accomplished for us objectively. And this is what you still have not come to terms with during our discussion.

Quote:
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

And this verse sums it all up concerning a true Christian:
Yes, the continuation in His word, not mans word (in your case: Armstrong), is the self evidence of believing on Christ, that is: Being a "disciple indeed". Don't you see this? You keep pointing to what Armstrong has taught you, rather than Christ. Here is what Christ taught:

Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Do you really not believe what Jesus said?

I'm going to stop here for now...We're still not ready to move beyond this point...
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:22 AM
 
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2COR 3:13 "And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:" The law as a means to trust in for salvation is abolished for those in Christ. The children of Israel could not look steadfastly upon the Glory to come that shown on the face of Moses because they were carnal minded.

The law still remains untill heaven and earth end but only for those who live under the law so that all who want to live by the the law shall be found guilty and hopefully seek Grace and Truth found only in Christ.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
False Teaching of "Believe on Christ" Only
Who stated that? You're the one that keeps mentioning this idea. You, being under law are in-fact under law, not Christ. I, being in Christ am not under law, but rather grace. And that has been the emphasis of my posts. The reason I keep returning to this particular text of Christ:

Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

...is to make that clear to you. Because you do not believe what Jesus said, you, being under law, must keep the law and all commandments pertaining to it. And, I'm not suggesting that you are to do anything otherwise.

And, your doctrines that are based upon the law, rather than Christ, are for those who are under the law, not for those who are under grace. And, I've repeated this to you many times.

Quote:
I'll let Paul himself set you straight:

Romans 6:
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid.....
This text neither contradicts what Jesus taught or what Paul said one chapter prior. How can it. Those dead to law and sin are no longer living therein or under the law's condemnation. Those who believe are alive in Christ, not the law. The law condemns, Christ justifies.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Quote:
By repentance and faith in Christ your past sins are forgiven.
I'm forgiven by Christ, my friend. He died on the cross for me. He shed His blood for me. It is not my faith or repentance that died for me, or that justifies me. The statements you make concerning yourself simply identifies you as not believing what Jesus did for you, as proclaimed in the Gospel. Here it is:

1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Quote:
But that does not mean you can continue in sin. You have to repent of your sins and turn around and go the other way.
Repentance is the change of mind that comes from being born of the Spirit. Not in-order to be born of the Spirit. It's the change of mind that believes the Gospel. And this is something you've not yet demonstrated. Your mind is still unchanged, it's still under the law, rather than Christ and His grace. Don't you see this? You keep telling me to repent, when it's actually you that have not...which I find rather amusing...lol

Quote:
You have to keep the Sabbath and all the Commandments of God...
It's not that believers "have to keep", but rather that I'm now lead by Christ, and have His liberty to walk in His Spirit, not the flesh.

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Nor are believers perfected in the flesh, after being born of the Spirit:

Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

What you've stated is what unbelievers must do. They must keep the law until brought to faith. The law is their schoolmaster, until Christ.

Quote:
Romans 8:7 and Jude 4 applies to those who want to keep on sinning and not have anything to do with obeying God and His Spiritual Law. They are not converted at all but believe on Satan the false Christ of this world who hates God and encourages disobedience and rebellion against God the Father.
But don't you see tthttf. This is exactly what you're doing by not believing on Him who justifies the ungodly.

I asked this before: Do you believe on Him that justifies the ungodly? Christ IS justifying (Greek: present tense) the UNGODLY, right now, as I'm typing this. Do you believe it?

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Do you believe this? Be honest with yourself. Do you?

Quote:
Satan first deceived...
Christ came to destroy the works of the devil. And He did. Also:

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

If you'll notice, Christ is the end of the law for those who believe. Not for those who do not believe, but rather those who believe. The law, and it's guilt and condemnation, are applicable for you as well as all who do not believe, and I've not said otherwise. I've not told you or anyone else to disobey God, or not to keep holy days, or any other such thing. How could I. The law is still applicable to those who are under it. To those who do not believe on Jesus:

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Quote:
The Gospel of the Kingdom of God is the true Gospel! The teaching about the Person of Christ is NOT the Gospel of the Kingdom
I've heard the Armstrong camp yell these sentiments before, and it's really nothing new. There is only ONE Gospel my friend. And, that Gospel is the same Gospel in each and every case. The Gospel is, perhaps, categorized in many way's. However, it is still the same Gospel. Here are examples of those names and titles that scripture gives to the Gospel:

Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Act 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Rom 1:1 PAUL, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Now, to try and suggest, as you do, that all of these do not refer to the same Gospel, or that there were many Gospels being preached that you've called "teachings", is simply false. There was only one Gospel preached, whether by Paul, or John, or James, or Peter, or any other apostles, as scripture tells us, here:

1Co 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

And, irrespective of what you or Armstrong say, Paul declares what that Gospel is, that all the apostles preached, here:

1Co 15:1 MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

How can you possibly assert that this is not the Gospel of the Kingdom that Paul and the other apostles preached? Paul even says that this is the Gospel that he also received: "which I also received", even as "ye" (the brethren) received, as Paul clearly stated in verse 1. To not see this is beyond me.

Again, your denial of this is simply more ignorance and poor reading skills on both you and Armstrong's part. And the very reason you developed the doctrines you did.

And, to suggest that the person of Christ is "a teaching", and not the central theme of the Gospel, is simply another statement of your unbelief. The Gospel is repeatedly defined, through out scripture, as being the Gospel of Christ, that is: the "good news" concerning the very things that He has done.

Quote:
Now, Satan has deceived the whole world as we read in Revelation 12:9.
He has not deceived those who believe on Jesus. I can assure you of that...

Quote:
This would exclude only those who have come out of this present evil world and who are obeying the true God and the true Jesus Christ.
Better yet, he has not deceived those who believe on Christ. On Him who justifies the ungodly (Rom 4:5).

Quote:
Mark 1:
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

So, Mark clearly states that the Gospel that Christ preached was the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.
It is in this same context that Christ said repent and believe the Gospel. Which Gospel? The Gospel of the Kingdom of God!

Christ spoke in parables the Gospel of the Kingdom of God to the world, to hide the meaning because God is only calling a few in this period (pictured by God's Holy Day -- Feast of Weeks or Pentecost).

Matt 13:
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

Matt 13:
31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

Matt 13:
33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Matt 13:
44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

Matt 13:
45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

Matt 13:
47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

Matt 13:
52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

Again from Mark 1.

Mark 1:
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

You are NOT preaching and believing the true Gospel of the Kingdom of God!

Wake Up, before it is too late and repent!
Actually, those are "mysteries", in parable form, of the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus preached.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Paul tells us that he was called, and set apart by Christ to make known that mystery of the Gospel:

Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

1Co 15:1 MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

If you'll notice, the words being translated as "known" (Eph 6:19), and "declare" (1 Cor 15:1) are both from the same Greek word γνωρίζω, and means to make known. And, Paul does in-fact make known the mystery of the Gospel of the Kingdom: And HERE IT IS, AGAIN:

1Co 15:1 MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Not only are you ignorant concerning the Gospel of the Kingdom as it was proclaimed by Jesus (it was not made known to unbelievers), but also it's very mystery that is made known to those who believe (the brethren), by Paul.

This mystery of the Gospel was given to Paul by direct revelation from Christ. This is the Gospel, the very Gospel of the Kingdom that you do not believe.

These posts are becoming very tedious and long...And we're not really progressing here, my friend. You sill have not come to terms with Joh 6:47 and I made a commitment to myself to refrain from going beyond that point.
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Old 09-21-2012, 03:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
So, Mark clearly states that the Gospel that Christ preached was the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.
Quote:
The Gospel of the Kingdom of God is the true Gospel! The teaching about the Person of Christ is NOT the Gospel of the Kingdom message that God gave Jesus Christ to preach to the world.
I didn't really address this item... Actually, it's good we're having this discussion though, it brings back other memories concerning this topic.

If you'll notice in Mark's narrative, Mark refers to Jesus' parables of the Kingdom as "teachings" and "His doctrine" (His being the operative word):

Mar 4:1 AND he began again to teach by the sea side: and there was gathered unto him a great multitude, so that he entered into a ship, and sat in the sea; and the whole multitude was by the sea on the land.
Mar 4:2 And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,
Mar 4:3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:....

Christ then launches into the parables of the Kingdom, and later explains to his disciples their meaning. Jesus also identifies Himself within those parables of the Kingdom. Examples found here, in Matthew:

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Based upon these texts, It's very deceptive to try, as Armstrongism does, to create a division between the Gospel of the Kingdom and "teachings" and "doctrines" concerning the person of Christ.

Scripture clearly reveals to us that the Gospel of the Kingdom, even in parable format, is not only a "teaching" and "doctrine", but also a teaching and doctrine concerning the person of Christ. "His doctrine".

Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 09-21-2012 at 04:22 PM..
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Old 09-21-2012, 04:42 PM
 
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One sin can keep us from inheriting the kingdom. Anything short of absolute and complete perfection will keep us from inheriting the kingdom. And it has. This is why Jesus was sent. He took on our sins for us so that we can enter the kingdom.
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:10 PM
 
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Who stated that? You're the one that keeps mentioning this idea. You, being under law are in-fact under law, not Christ. I, being in Christ am not under law, but rather grace. And that has been the emphasis of my posts. The reason I keep returning to this particular text of Christ:

Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

...is to make that clear to you. Because you do not believe what Jesus said, you, being under law, must keep the law and all commandments pertaining to it. And, I'm not suggesting that you are to do anything otherwise.

And, your doctrines that are based upon the law, rather than Christ, are for those who are under the law, not for those who are under grace. And, I've repeated this to you many times.
Your attitude against God's Spiritual Law (Romans 8:7) indicates that you are not converted and therefore you are not being judged yet (1 Peter 4:17). God would correct you for Sabbath-breaking if you were being judged now. God corrects me if I get careless in keeping His Commandments and God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34).


Quote:
This text neither contradicts what Jesus taught or what Paul said one chapter prior. How can it. Those dead to law and sin are no longer living therein or under the law's condemnation. Those who believe are alive in Christ, not the law. The law condemns, Christ justifies.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 6:
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid.....

You are to believe God and obey His Commandments. You can be forgiven your past sins after you repent but you cannot return to your past sins. You must become perfect like God (Matthew 5:48) and God's Holy Spirit enables a true Christian to obey God.

Quote:
I'm forgiven by Christ, my friend. He died on the cross for me. He shed His blood for me. It is not my faith or repentance that died for me, or that justifies me. The statements you make concerning yourself simply identifies you as not believing what Jesus did for you, as proclaimed in the Gospel. Here it is:

1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
Sorry, I personally do not think you are truly converted because of your hostile attitude toward God's Spiritual Law. (Romans 8:7)


Quote:
Repentance is the change of mind that comes from being born of the Spirit. Not in-order to be born of the Spirit. It's the change of mind that believes the Gospel. And this is something you've not yet demonstrated. Your mind is still unchanged, it's still under the law, rather than Christ and His grace. Don't you see this? You keep telling me to repent, when it's actually you that have not...which I find rather amusing...lol
God will draw you to Christ and your repentance actually comes from God. That is how God worked with me personally, so I know it to be true. To actually receive God's Holy Spirit you have to repent as Peter points out in Acts 2.

Acts 2:
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Again, you have not repented of breaking God's Commandments and God is not correcting you and you are not being judged at this time. You equate your ability to break God's Commandments and not being corrected by God for it as grace. Actually, you will have to give an account for every sin you commit at a later time and your only correction at this time will come if you break man's law and they catch you for it like murder or stealing. God corrects those He loves. The penalty for Sabbath breaking is death. God corrects me so I won't suffer the death penalty by showing me I am wrong when I start to get careless when I get close to disobeying His Commandments.

God corrects and chastens those whom He loves:

Heb 12: [RSV]
5 And have you forgotten the exhortation which addresses you as sons?--"My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor lose courage when you are punished by him.
6 For the Lord disciplines him whom he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives."
12:7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Heb 12:8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?
Heb 12:10 For they disciplined us for a short time at their pleasure, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.
Heb 12:11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Quote:
It's not that believers "have to keep", but rather that I'm now lead by Christ, and have His liberty to walk in His Spirit, not the flesh.

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Nor are believers perfected in the flesh, after being born of the Spirit:

Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

What you've stated is what unbelievers must do. They must keep the law until brought to faith. The law is their schoolmaster, until Christ.
Again, you have not repented of breaking God's Commandments and God is not correcting you and you are not being judged at this time. Your mind is hostile to the Spiritual Law of God and Jude 4 indicates that you have turned grace into lasciviousness. With no one to correct modern Christians the civil authorities are the only authority they really know. God's Government is not active in their lives and correcting them when they start to break God's Commandments such as Sabbath-breaking.

Quote:
But don't you see tthttf. This is exactly what you're doing by not believing on Him who justifies the ungodly.

I asked this before: Do you believe on Him that justifies the ungodly? Christ IS justifying (Greek: present tense) the UNGODLY, right now, as I'm typing this. Do you believe it?

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Do you believe this? Be honest with yourself. Do you?
You are the one who is not being corrected by God. God corrects me. Satan the god of this world will not correct you for breaking God's Sabbath. The civil authorities will not correct you. The Sabbath truly is a sign between the true God and His people.

Quote:
Christ came to destroy the works of the devil. And He did. Also:

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

If you'll notice, Christ is the end of the law for those who believe. Not for those who do not believe, but rather those who believe. The law, and it's guilt and condemnation, are applicable for you as well as all who do not believe, and I've not said otherwise. I've not told you or anyone else to disobey God, or not to keep holy days, or any other such thing. How could I. The law is still applicable to those who are under it. To those who do not believe on Jesus:

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
If you really believed Christ you would believe God. And God had Christ as the Word speak the Ten Commandments at Mount Sinai. God also had recorded in the New Testament Scriptures that Christ said that if we are to have eternal life then we must keep the Commandments. (Matt 19:17) My obedience to God is to avoid being under the penalty of the law. Your mind is not subject to the Spiritual Law of God (Romans 8:7) and therefore you are not converted and not being judged and corrected by God and Christ at this time (1 Peter 4:17).

Quote:
I've heard the Armstrong camp yell these sentiments before, and it's really nothing new. There is only ONE Gospel my friend. And, that Gospel is the same Gospel in each and every case. The Gospel is, perhaps, categorized in many way's. However, it is still the same Gospel. Here are examples of those names and titles that scripture gives to the Gospel:

Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Act 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Rom 1:1 PAUL, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Now, to try and suggest, as you do, that all of these do not refer to the same Gospel, or that there were many Gospels being preached that you've called "teachings", is simply false. There was only one Gospel preached, whether by Paul, or John, or James, or Peter, or any other apostles, as scripture tells us, here:

1Co 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

And, irrespective of what you or Armstrong say, Paul declares what that Gospel is, that all the apostles preached, here:

1Co 15:1 MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

How can you possibly assert that this is not the Gospel of the Kingdom that Paul and the other apostles preached? Paul even says that this is the Gospel that he also received: "which I also received", even as "ye" (the brethren) received, as Paul clearly stated in verse 1. To not see this is beyond me.

Again, your denial of this is simply more ignorance and poor reading skills on both you and Armstrong's part. And the very reason you developed the doctrines you did.

And, to suggest that the person of Christ is "a teaching", and not the central theme of the Gospel, is simply another statement of your unbelief. The Gospel is repeatedly defined, through out scripture, as being the Gospel of Christ, that is: the "good news" concerning the very things that He has done.
No. The fact that you mind is hostile to law of God (Romans 8:7) which means you are unconverted and the fact that you not keep God's Holy Days which outlines God's Master Plan of Salvation, these two conditions cause you to blindly follow the world and believe that the Gospel is about the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Christ. The Feast of Trumpets was six days ago and Day of Atonement is three days from now and God's Feast of Tabernacles begins eight days from now. We are now in the middle of God's Annual Fall Holy Days.

Christ came with a message from God and that message was about the coming Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is both the Family of God into which a person who is begotten by God's Holy Spirit who overcomes and endures until the end can be born into an become a member of God's Household, an actual member of the Family of God, with God as Father and Christ as Elder Brother. The Kingdom of God is also a world ruling Government that is going to be setup on this earth at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ which is pictured by the Feast of Trumpets. (If you kept these Holy Days, this concept would not be alien to you.) This Government will replace all present governments and a real "utopia" will result. This coming Kingdom of God will not be a government of the people, by the people for the people. It will be the Government of God, by God for mankind to fulfill his ultimate human destiny of becoming God as God is God by being begotten with God's Holy Spirit and eventually being born into the Kingdom of God as a Spirit Being with eternal life. When Christ came the first time He was only calling a few to rule with Him when He Returned and on through the Millennium and help with the second great Fall Harvest of spiritual beings pictured by the abundance in these Fall Holy Days.


Quote:
He has not deceived those who believe on Jesus. I can assure you of that...

Better yet, he has not deceived those who believe on Christ. On Him who justifies the ungodly (Rom 4:5).
If you were not deceived you would obey God and not be hostile to the Spiritual Law of God (Romans 8:7). God would be correcting you and you would not be without chastening for Sabbath-breaking and your other sins. We have a saying in our organization -- If you break God's Law, It will break you! You apparently are cut off from God and God is not chastening you for your sins or else you would be obeying and not hostile and want to replace obedience to God with your Once Saved, Always Saved doctrine of "believing on Christ".

Quote:
Actually, those are "mysteries", in parable form, of the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus preached.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Paul tells us that he was called, and set apart by Christ to make known that mystery of the Gospel:

Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

1Co 15:1 MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

If you'll notice, the words being translated as "known" (Eph 6:19), and "declare" (1 Cor 15:1) are both from the same Greek word γνωρίζω, and means to make known. And, Paul does in-fact make known the mystery of the Gospel of the Kingdom: And HERE IT IS, AGAIN:

1Co 15:1 MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Not only are you ignorant concerning the Gospel of the Kingdom as it was proclaimed by Jesus (it was not made known to unbelievers), but also it's very mystery that is made known to those who believe (the brethren), by Paul.

This mystery of the Gospel was given to Paul by direct revelation from Christ. This is the Gospel, the very Gospel of the Kingdom that you do not believe.
No, I think you can see by now that I am not the one who is ignorant. You are the one who does not obey God or keep the Holy Days that actually outline God's Master Plan and how this soon Coming Kingdom of God will alter human existence forever. The Gospel of the Kingdom of God was preached by Christ and the early apostles.

Paul preached/taught the Gospel of the Kingdom of God and he also preached/taught things concerning Christ. Luke points these two separate thing out in Acts for both Paul and Phillip:

Acts 28:
30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

See, the Gospel of the Kingdom of God is listed separately.

Here's a description of what Phillip was doing, as well:

Acts 8:
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

So, you see, you do not know or even believe the True Gospel of the Kingdom of God. You are blinded like the rest of this present evil world to the Gospel Message that the true Jesus Christ actually proclaimed.

Quote:
These posts are becoming very tedious and long...And we're not really progressing here, my friend. You sill have not come to terms with Joh 6:47 and I made a commitment to myself to refrain from going beyond that point.
No, it is you that has not come to terms with John 6:47. You are not Once-Saved-Always-Saved by belief as you proclaim. The scriptures prove you wrong!

Luke 8:
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:32 PM
 
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This thread is ridiculous.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.


36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
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