Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So why are we to believe you have some special revelation from God to point this out ???
It is truly difficult to believe an individual in whom come here to proclaim how thy find the word of God is not inspired by God, written by mans own interpretation, constantly seeking some type of contradictions in the word of God, to be a truthful and a genuine man of God !!
The believers of the Lord Jesus, seeking to worship Him in spirit and Truth are warned 1 John 4:1 (NASB) of such individuals....
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
*********************
Quote: "The false pride of those teaching others NOT to fear/reverence God, in spite of the scriptures above and many others --- is astonishing! The lessons are clear throughout scripture for any with the eyes to see and ears to hear. The notion of some that others are suggesting that Believers who 'fear' God ... are afraid of God ... is utterly ridiculous! -- "Fearing" God is about trusting and believing God."
^^^..... AMEN !!
********************************
Jeremiah 14:14 (NASB)
Then the Lord said to me, “The prophets are prophesying falsehood in My name. I have neither sent them nor commanded them nor spoken to them; they are prophesying to you a false vision, divination, futility and the deception of their own minds
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow.
[color=blue][b]
1 john 4:18
-There is no fear where love exists. Rather, perfect love banishes fear, for fear involves punishment, and the person who lives in fear has not been perfected in love
-There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is by suspicion, but he who fears is not grown up in love.
-No fear exists where his love is. Rather, perfect love gets rid of fear, because fear involves punishment. The person who lives in fear doesn't have perfect love.
-Such love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced his perfect love
1. Tell me why is that people/ your quote; "If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced his perfect love"..... WHY ???
2. Those who fear God and His punishment therefore are not made perfect in His love, because ??
3. Why do such individuals fear this punishment ??? And therefore God does not give them His perfect love within their heart ?? There is a very good reason for this....
4. "because fear is by suspicion"..... scripture please.... I've not seem to have come across this in the scripture, so could you point it out to me where it states this, thanks !
4. "because fear is by suspicion"..... scripture please.... I've not seem to have come across this in the scripture, so could you point it out to me where it states this, thanks !
"suspicion" - mistrust. When we don't yet understand God's love, we CANNOT fully trust Him. It is impossible. That is why there is so much talk of "faith" and how important "faith" is. God is trying to bring us to a place where we understand His love, so that we WILL trust Him with our heart, mind and soul. It is for OUR benefit. (This is a good thread topic.)
Anyway, It is the same verse as the others: (1 John 4:18) as translated into English from the original Aramaic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin
1. Tell me why is that people/ your quote; "If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced his perfect love"..... WHY ???
Some people fear because they do not yet understand the love of God. If they understood that God's judgments are rooted in love, then they would not fear "punishment". How much do you love your child? God is showing you how much YOU are loved by the LOVE you have for your child. Many things in this life have parallels and reflect other things back to us. God is trying to tell us something. When you discipline your child, it is out of LOVE for your child, is it not? Children may not understand this concept. When they get older and mature, they look back on your discipline and understand that it was out of LOVE that they were disciplined. And so it is with us and God. We are AFRAID of God when we do not yet understand just how GREAT His love for us actually is, and we are AFRAID of God when we don't yet understand what His judgments are, and their purpose. There is no need to fear. Just like your child understands your immense love for him. He can rest in your love and have no fear. Perfect love casts out ALL fear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin
2. Those who fear God and His punishment therefore are not made perfect in His love, because ??
Fear is darkness. (Fear is ignorance. There is something that is not clear in one's understanding.)
There is NO fear in LOVE.
(See above question 1.) They are not made perfect in His love BECAUSE of their fear. Fear is darkness.
Fear is ignorance. FEAR is what is keeping them FROM understanding and being "made perfect in His love". God isn't keeping them from understanding. Their FEAR is keeping them from understanding. Their FEAR is keeping them in the darkness (ignorance.) They do not have a clear understanding of the character of God. They believe God is someone who can and will bring them (and others) harm. Our faith in God grows and becomes stronger the more the veil is lifted and the more we see His true character: Love. God only ever has our best interests at heart. No matter what is happening to you in your life, the one constant is the LOVE of God. (Though we have to live on this earth side-by-side with people who have varying degrees of understanding of what love is. That makes life here very difficult. But it's why we are here. To walk this contrast and gain understanding. To see the consequences of non-love and eventually come to understand the overwhelming power of love.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin
3. Why do such individuals fear this punishment ??? And therefore God does not give them His perfect love within their heart ?? There is a very good reason for this....
Again, it's the same thing. They fear this punishment because they do not yet understand the LOVE of God. They do not understand that they do not NEED to be AFRAID of God's judgments. God's judgments are rooted in LOVE. Again, reflect on your own discipline you have given your children. Is it not out of LOVE? And look at how imperfect we are. God loves us overwhelmingly more than we love our own children, even. There is no fear in love.
Fear is the BEGINNING of knowledge. It is the STARTING POINT. When we overcome our fear, walk through it... walk THROUGH it... then our understanding grows. We shed our ignorance for knowledge. We shed our fear for love. We are here to learn.
FEAR of God is overcome/defeated by the KNOWLEDGE of HIS LOVE.
peace to you Cyber..
sparrow
Last edited by .sparrow.; 10-25-2012 at 09:41 AM..
"suspicion" - mistrust. When we don't yet understand God's love, we CANNOT fully trust Him. It is impossible. That is why there is so much talk of "faith" and how important "faith" is. God is trying to bring us to a place where we understand His love, so that we WILL trust Him with our heart, mind and soul. It is for OUR benefit. (This is a good thread topic.)
Anyway, It is the same verse as the others: (1 John 4:18) as translated into English from the original Aramaic.
Some people fear because they do not yet understand the love of God. If they understood that God's judgments are rooted in love, then they would not fear "punishment". How much do you love your child? God is showing you how much YOU are loved by the LOVE you have for your child. Many things in this life have parallels and reflect other things back to us. God is trying to tell us something. When you discipline your child, it is out of LOVE for your child, is it not? Children may not understand this concept. When they get older and mature, they look back on your discipline and understand that it was out of LOVE that they were disciplined. And so it is with us and God. We are AFRAID of God when we do not yet understand just how GREAT His love for us actually is, and we are AFRAID of God when we don't yet understand what His judgments are, and their purpose. There is no need to fear. Just like your child understands your immense love for him. He can rest in your love and have no fear. Perfect love casts out ALL fear.
Fear is darkness. (Fear is ignorance. There is something that is not clear in one's understanding.)
There is NO fear in LOVE.
(See above question 1.) They are not made perfect in His love BECAUSE of their fear. Fear is darkness.
Fear is ignorance. FEAR is what is keeping them FROM understanding and being "made perfect in His love". God isn't keeping them from understanding. Their FEAR is keeping them from understanding. Their FEAR is keeping them in the darkness (ignorance.) They do not have a clear understanding of the character of God. They believe God is someone who can and will bring them (and others) harm. Our faith in God grows and becomes stronger the more the veil is lifted and the more we see His true character: Love. God only ever has our best interests at heart. No matter what is happening to you in your life, the one constant is the LOVE of God. (Though we have to live on this earth side-by-side with people who have varying degrees of understanding of what love is. That makes life here very difficult. But it's why we are here. To walk this contrast and gain understanding. To see the consequences of non-love and eventually come to understand the overwhelming power of love.)
Again, it's the same thing. They fear this punishment because they do not yet understand the LOVE of God. They do not understand that they do not NEED to be AFRAID of God's judgments. God's judgments are rooted in LOVE. Again, reflect on your own discipline you have given your children. Is it not out of LOVE? And look at how imperfect we are. God loves us overwhelmingly more than we love our own children, even. There is no fear in love.
Fear is the BEGINNING of knowledge. It is the STARTING POINT. When we overcome our fear, walk through it... walk THROUGH it... then our understanding grows. We shed our ignorance for knowledge. We shed our fear for love. We are here to learn.
FEAR of God is overcome/defeated by the KNOWLEDGE of HIS LOVE.
peace to you Cyber..
sparrow
Amen sparrow. 1 Corinthians 13 tells us love believes all things. He is not the God that fear and suspicion says He is. We also have to keep in mind that fear and eternal torment are believed in by many before they have ever confessed they believed in The Lord, a transformed mind leaves such thoughts behind when they understand we are made perfect in love.
Quote [jghorton]: "The false pride of those teaching others NOT to fear/reverence God, in spite of the scriptures above and many others --- is astonishing! The lessons are clear throughout scripture for any with the eyes to see and ears to hear. The notion of some that others are suggesting that Believers who 'fear' God ... are afraid of God ... is utterly ridiculous! -- "Fearing" God is about trusting and believing God."
^^^..... AMEN !!
If this is what you both believe -- that "fearing" God is not about being afraid of God but about trusting and believing God -- then you are actually in agreement with the people on this thread whom you seem to be arguing with. It seems like it's just a semantics thing.
We should have respect for God and yes, maybe even a tiny bit of fear. The reason so many people today don't believe in any kind of God is because they don't have respect or fear for anyone or anything.
In addition to having respect for the awesome power of God, people need to love God:
1 Corinthians 8:3
But if any man loves God, the same is known by him.
Matthew 22:37-40
And He said to him, "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."
If this is what you both believe -- that "fearing" God is not about being afraid of God but about trusting and believing God -- then you are actually in agreement with the people on this thread whom you seem to be arguing with. It seems like it's just a semantics thing.
If you believe God is to be feared,whether it is right or wrong to do so, you do fear him and are afraid of him. What we believe rules us. Scripture teaches that the peace of God should rule our heart. It's worth noting too that Jesus spoke peace to the fearful.
If you believe God is to be feared,whether it is right or wrong to do so, you do fear him and are afraid of him. What we believe rules us. Scripture teaches that the peace of God should rule our heart. It's worth noting too that Jesus spoke peace to the fearful.
What I'm saying is that they are using a definition of "fear" that has nothing to do with being afraid. According to the definition they are putting forward they say "fearing" is actually trusting and believing NOT being afraid. They may or may not be wrong to define the word "fear" in such a way, but why argue over semantics? If they believe one has no reason to be afraid of God and you believe that also, then you are in agreement, aren't you?
"suspicion" - mistrust. When we don't yet understand God's love, we CANNOT fully trust Him. It is impossible. That is why there is so much talk of "faith" and how important "faith" is. God is trying to bring us to a place where we understand His love, so that we WILL trust Him with our heart, mind and soul. It is for OUR benefit. (This is a good thread topic.)
Anyway, It is the same verse as the others: (1 John 4:18) as translated into English from the original Aramaic.
Some people fear because they do not yet understand the love of God. If they understood that God's judgments are rooted in love, then they would not fear "punishment". How much do you love your child? God is showing you how much YOU are loved by the LOVE you have for your child. Many things in this life have parallels and reflect other things back to us. God is trying to tell us something. When you discipline your child, it is out of LOVE for your child, is it not? Children may not understand this concept. When they get older and mature, they look back on your discipline and understand that it was out of LOVE that they were disciplined. And so it is with us and God. We are AFRAID of God when we do not yet understand just how GREAT His love for us actually is, and we are AFRAID of God when we don't yet understand what His judgments are, and their purpose. There is no need to fear. Just like your child understands your immense love for him. He can rest in your love and have no fear. Perfect love casts out ALL fear.
Fear is darkness. (Fear is ignorance. There is something that is not clear in one's understanding.)
There is NO fear in LOVE.
(See above question 1.) They are not made perfect in His love BECAUSE of their fear. Fear is darkness.
Fear is ignorance. FEAR is what is keeping them FROM understanding and being "made perfect in His love". God isn't keeping them from understanding. Their FEAR is keeping them from understanding. Their FEAR is keeping them in the darkness (ignorance.) They do not have a clear understanding of the character of God. They believe God is someone who can and will bring them (and others) harm. Our faith in God grows and becomes stronger the more the veil is lifted and the more we see His true character: Love. God only ever has our best interests at heart. No matter what is happening to you in your life, the one constant is the LOVE of God. (Though we have to live on this earth side-by-side with people who have varying degrees of understanding of what love is. That makes life here very difficult. But it's why we are here. To walk this contrast and gain understanding. To see the consequences of non-love and eventually come to understand the overwhelming power of love.)
Again, it's the same thing. They fear this punishment because they do not yet understand the LOVE of God. They do not understand that they do not NEED to be AFRAID of God's judgments. God's judgments are rooted in LOVE. Again, reflect on your own discipline you have given your children. Is it not out of LOVE? And look at how imperfect we are. God loves us overwhelmingly more than we love our own children, even. There is no fear in love.
Fear is the BEGINNING of knowledge. It is the STARTING POINT. When we overcome our fear, walk through it... walk THROUGH it... then our understanding grows. We shed our ignorance for knowledge. We shed our fear for love. We are here to learn. FEAR of God is overcome/defeated by the KNOWLEDGE of HIS LOVE.
peace to you Cyber..
sparrow
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Amen sparrow. 1 Corinthians 13 tells us love believes all things. He is not the God that fear and suspicion says He is. We also have to keep in mind that fear and eternal torment are believed in by many before they have ever confessed they believed in The Lord, a transformed mind leaves such thoughts behind when they understand we are made perfect in love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
If this is what you both believe -- that "fearing" God is not about being afraid of God but about trusting and believing God -- then you are actually in agreement with the people on this thread whom you seem to be arguing with. It seems like it's just a semantics thing.
Amen, my brothers and sisters! Sparrow AND Pleroo are right and it IS a semantic issue IF they genuinely do NOT mean actual fear of our loving God. Fear and love are completely INCOMPATIBLE and cannot co-exist . . . even the physiological effects on the body are polar opposites. As a matter of fact, the deleterious effects of fear on the human body can be so severe that any prolonged state is devastating. There is NO WAY our God would want His children in that state, period.
What I'm saying is that they are using a definition of "fear" that has nothing to do with being afraid. According to the definition they are putting forward they say "fearing" is actually trusting and believing NOT being afraid. They may or may not be wrong to define the word "fear" in such a way, but why argue over semantics? If they believe one has no reason to be afraid of God and you believe that also, then you are in agreement, aren't you?
I have never heard trusting and believing as being fearing God before,and to me in my opinion to believe it,your mind cannot be possibly sound. It simply does not make sense when you know fear is not of God. It's a mystery that when we become Christian's we take leave of our senses, especially in the Light that Jesus Christ is the reality of what God thinks of us.
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
2 Tim 1:7
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
