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As it has been said before by theologians many years ago... it still needs repeating:
" Millennialismoutright deny the church's hope of Christ's only return to judgement and those who transport it into the stratosphere of their own esoteric speculations belong to the scoffers who, Peter warned, would come," ... ' scoffing and following their own evil desires ' (2 Peter 3:3).
Characteristics of the Millennium, which is also called the Messianic Kingdom, as well as the Age of Christ. Please read the Scriptural references.
1.) It is a thousand years in duration and immediately precedes the eternal kingdom. That it is a literal thousand years in length is established by the fact that one thousand years is mentioned five times in Revelation chapter 20. This is comparable to the fact that the 1260 days, and the 42 months in Revelation 11:2-3 and Revelation 13:5 are literal periods of time regarding the last half of the 7 year Tribulation.
2.) It will be established on the earth when Jesus Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation. The families of the earth will go up to Jerusalem to worship the King. Those who do not will receive no rain (Zech. chapter 14).
3.) There will be perfect environment, generally speaking (see number 2 above concerning no rain), - perfect conditions on the earth during the Millennium (Isaiah 11:1-9).
4.) There will be no religion on the earth during the Millennium. Satan is the author of religion. Religion is Satan's attempt to blind man to the truth. Since Satan will be imprisoned for the duration of the Millennium (Revelation 20:1-3), religion will be non-existent.
5.) There will be great spirituality on the earth during the Millennium. A maximum number of believers will be filled with the Spirit, and ecstatics will be bonafide (Joel 2:28-29).
6.) Israel will be fullly restored as a nation in belief. While there is currently a nation Israel as the first stage of its regathering in preparation for the judgment of the Tribulation, it is a partial regathering in a state of unbelief. During the Millennium, the Abrahamic, Palestinian, and Davidic covenants, and the New covenant to Israel will be fully realized.
7.) While nations will exist during the Millennium, the reign of Jesus Christ will be a universal reign over the earth. There will be a perfect world government (Psalm 72; Isaiah 11:1-5; Zechariah 14:9).
8.) There will be universal peace during the Millennium (Psalm 46:9; Hosiah 2:18; Micah 4:3).
9.) In the Millennium there will be universal prosperity (Psalm 72:7, 16).
10.) There will be universal knowledge of God. The earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord (Isa. 11:9).
11.) There will be radical changes in nature during the Millennium. Sin had an adverse effect on nature (Genesis 3:17,18). In the Millennium, animals will lose their ferocity. The wolf will lay down with the lamb (Isaiah 11:6-8; 65:25).
12.) The life span will be extended (Isaiah 65:20).
Yes, the Millennium is quite literal, as are the characteristics which describe it. Its future existence is well attested to in the Scriptures.
The Church Age (Terminates with the rapture of the Church) --> The Tribulation (7 years) --> The Millennium (1000 years) --> The great white throne judgment --> The new heaven and new earth (eternity future).
Last edited by Michael Way; 10-24-2012 at 04:59 PM..
The Church Age (Terminates with the rapture of the Church) --> The Tribulation (7 years) --> The Millennium (1000 years) --> The great white throne judgment --> The new heaven and new earth (eternity future).
And where has that been stated before ......
A: The Milleniumist's rapture occures (Whenever That Occures)
+
B: The Milleniumist's 7 year trib ....... (WTO + 7)
+
C: The Milleniumist's 1000 year number....... ( WTO + 7 + 1000 number)
=
The predicted date of Jesus' return
Those who read this either believe the truth scripture that 1 Thess. 4:16-17 is not a seperate event from Matthew 25:31-46.
The question folks should be asking themselves is, are you living in a manner that prepares you to meet the Lord at anytime ... by death, rapture or ???
Words of wisdom.
There lies the ultimate question. Nothing else really matters.
Originally Posted by Mike555
The Church Age (Terminates with the rapture of the Church) --> The Tribulation (7 years) --> The Millennium (1000 years) --> The great white throne judgment --> The new heaven and new earth (eternity future).
Quote:
And where has that been stated before ......
A: The Milleniumist's rapture occures (Whenever That Occures)
+
B: The Milleniumist's 7 year trib ....... (WTO + 7)
+
C: The Milleniumist's 1000 year number....... ( WTO + 7 + 1000 number)
=
The predicted date of Jesus' return
Those who read this either believe the truth scripture that 1 Thess. 4:16-17 is not a seperate event from Matthew 25:31-46.
or the predictions of Millennialism
The sequence of events
The Church Age (Terminates with the rapture of the Church) --> The Tribulation (7 years) --> The return of Jesus Christ to the earth --> The establishment of the Millennial kingdom (1000 years) --> The great white throne judgment --> The new heaven and new earth (eternity future)
The sequence of events as shown above is understood from a literal reading and understanding of the Bible. The book of Revelation lays out the sequence of these events.
As shown in the first post of this thread and repeated below, the general outline of the book of Revelation is given in Rev. 1:19
From the first post.
'Scripture also shows that the rapture of the church will occur before the Tribulation.
1.) The general outline of the book of Revelation given in Rev. 1:19 confirms this. "Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things."
The first phrase, 'Therefore write the things which you have seen', refers to the things Daniel was shown in Revelation chapter one - 'the seven lampstands, the one like a son of man holding seven stars'.
The second phrase, 'and the things which are', refers to the seven churches described in chapters two and three, which are representative of churches throughout the present Church Age.
The third phrase, 'and the things which will take place after these things', refers to all the events which will take place after the Church Age terminates with the rapture. Revelation chapters four and following describe the Tribulation, the return of Christ, the setting up of the Millennial kingdom, the great white throne judgment, and the new heaven and new earth.'
'The things which are' cover the present Church Age. This is Revelation chapters 2 and 3. Beginning with chapter 4 the church is not mentioned again until Revelation chapter 19:7 where the church is seen in heaven where it is called the bride of Christ. Beginning with Revelation chapter four, the 24 elders are mentioned for the first time. The 24 elders represent the resurrected church in heaven. The raptured and resurrected church is shown in heaven during the time of the 7 year Tribulation which is taking place on the earth.
The third phrase, 'and the things which will take place after these things', means just what it says. It does not say 'and the things which are taking place at the same time as the things which are'; it says 'THE THINGS WHICH WILL TAKE PLACE AFTER THESE THINGS!!! After what things? After the events of the Church Age!!!
And the events which are said to take place after these things are spelled out in the book of Revelation.
Chapters 4-19 describe the events of the Tribulation. Chapter 19:11-21 shows the return of Jesus Christ to the earth with the armies of heaven at the end of the Tribulation. Rev. 20:1:3 shows Satan being imprisoned and Rev. 20: 2-7 mentions the 1000 years of the Millennial kingdom 6 times. Rev. 20:7-9 shows Satan being temporarily released to deceive the nations. Rev. 20:10-15 shows Satan being thrown into the lake of fire, and the great white throne judgment in which all unbelievers are judged and also thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation chapters 21 and 22 show the new heaven and earth in the eternal state.
Premillennialism is the view that Jesus Christ will return before the Millennial kingdom is established. This is the view which is understood from a literal understanding of the Bible as shown above.
Postmillennialism is the view that Jesus Christ will return after the Millennium. This is not borne out by the Scriptures as is seen above.
Amillennialism (the position to which you hold) is the view that there is no literal Millennium, but that it is figurative, and that it is the present Church Age which is that figuative Millennium. Both Postmillennialism and Amillennialism hold the view that when Christ returns, the eternal state begins. And again, as can be seen from a literal reading and understanding of Revelation, this simply is not true.
Amillennialism requres allegorizing the Scriptures, allegorizing the prophecies which speak of Christ's return and of the Millennium.
The burden of proof is on the Amillennialist to show why those prophecies should be allegorized rather than understood literally.
The Amillennialist must also explain how it is that if Jesus Christ is presently ruling from the throne of David in heaven as is claimed by Amillennialists, then do why the current conditions exist on the earth regarding crime, and sin, and evil, and war, considering the fact that Isa. 11:4 and Rev. 12:5 say that Jesus Christ will rule all the nations with a rod of iron , and that Psalm 46:9; Hosea 2:18, and Micah 4:3 all say that there will be no war during the Millennium. Furthermore, when Jesus is ruling from David's throne, it will be on the earth in Jerusalem. The throne of David is not in heaven.
And since Revelation 20:1-3 says that Satan will be imprisoned during the Millennium, the Amillennialist must explain how it is that 2 Corinthians 4:4 states that Satan who is the god of this age, has blinded the minds of the unbelieving. If Satan is presently locked away, then how is he able to blind the minds of the unbelieving? Remember that the Amillennialist believes that the Millennium is figurative and is actually the present Church Age. Therefore, the Amillennialist must, if he is to be consistent with Amillennialism, believe that Satan is currently locked away.
Amillennialism has no Biblical support. A literal reading and interpretation of the Bible demands both a Pretribulational and Premillennial understanding.
Last edited by Michael Way; 10-25-2012 at 11:34 AM..
Mike,
You can repeat yourself all you want ... millenialism is still (and historically be held as) shown itself to be the hersey that it is.
When Christ returns the only time, the curtian will be pulled bact to expose the those false theologians ... like the ones you keep linking to. As was said about those false theologians long ago, I repeat again reguarding the reading (by Millenialists) of specifically to Rev:
Millennialists boast that they apply the literal, historical-grammatical method of interpreptation to the Bible's eschatological prophecies.. ....
Scriptures itself indicates, however, that it is at times speaking figuratively, symbolically, or allegorically... To fail to reconize figurative or symbolical when it is used results in as flagrant a misinterpretation as to the allegorized non-figurative, direct speech....
Millennialists are guilty of crass literalism.
This idea of an earthly rule has long plagued believers.
The Jews of the OT and NT were looking for "earthly kingdom rule" of God in the OT.
The very last words Jesus heard prior to his ascention from the disciples was "earthly kingdom".
Jesus didn't give a rambling explanation, instead he sharply rebuked this.
Millennialism is the:
outright deny the church's hope of Christ's only return to judgement and those who " transport it into the stratosphere of their own esoteric speculations" belong to the scoffers who, Peter warned, would come, "scoffing and following their own evil desires" (2 Peter 3:3).
Last edited by twin.spin; 10-25-2012 at 05:17 PM..
Mike,
You can repeat yourself all you want ... millenialism is still (and historically be held as) shown itself to be the hersey that it is.
When Christ returns the only time, the curtian will be pulled bact to expose the those false theologians ... like the ones you keep linking to. As was said about those false theologians long ago, I repeat again reguarding the reading (by Millenialists) of specifically to Rev:
Millennialists boast that they apply the literal, historical-grammatical method of interpreptation to the Bible's eschatological prophecies.. ....
Scriptures itself indicates, however, that it is at times speaking figuratively, symbolically, or allegorically... To fail to reconize figurative or symbolical when it is used results in as flagrant a misinterpretation as to the allegorized non-figurative, direct speech....
Millennialists are guilty of crass literalism.
This idea of an earthly rule has long plagued believers.
The Jews of the OT and NT were looking for "earthly kingdom rule" of God in the OT.
The very last words Jesus heard prior to his ascention from the disciples was "earthly kingdom".
Jesus didn't give a rambling explanation, instead he sharply rebuked this.
Millennialism is the:
outright deny the church's hope of Christ's only return to judgement and those who " transport it into the stratosphere of their own esoteric speculations" belong to the scoffers who, Peter warned, would come, "scoffing and following their own evil desires" (2 Peter 3:3).
Twin.Spin, I did more than merely repeat myself. I expanded upon what I had previously said, and I showed why Amillennialism is not Biblically sound.
You have not, and cannot explain away the reasons given. Saying that Scripture sometimes speaks figuratively, symbollically, and allegorically does nothing to directly address the reasons I specifically gave. It is true that the Bible uses symbolism, and allegory at times. But the symbolism and the allegory when used, is clear. There is nothing allegorical or symbolic about the fact that the Bible says there will be no war during the Millennium. There will be the Gog Magog rebellion when the Millennium has completed (Rev. 20:7-9), but the Bible is clear that during the Millennium there will be no war. Look around you. Does it appear to you that there is no war?
I believe that to any thinking person, it has been made clear that Amillennialism is not Biblical. And with a little honest effort, I think you will find that most of the early church fathers were premillennial. That is, they believed that Jesus would return before the Millennium. It wasn't until Origen, who popularized an allegorical approach to the Scriptures, that Amillennialism began to make inroads.
You seem to one of those people who will disregard the facts, no matter how clear they are, in order to cling to what you already believe. That being the case, it is therefore pointless to continue to try to help you see your error.
And by the way, when the disciples asked Jesus when the kingdom was to be restored, He did not correct them by saying that they were mistaken about an earthly kingdom. He told them that it was not for them to know the time of its arrival. (Acts 1:6-7).
Mike,
You base your explanation coming from the absolute position of being correct. So of course you're so sure that you can "show" Amillennialism is not Biblically sound. That however does not mean that the foundation on how one reads something which is correct. Fact is Millennialism starts wrong, concludes wrong... and will end wrong.
Again, you show yourself to be guilty of what has been characterized by theologians of long ago when stated:
"To fail to reconize figurative or symbolical when it is used results in as flagrant a misinterpretation as to the allegorized non-figurative, direct speech.... Millennialists are guilty of crass literalism. (Millenialists) outright deny the church's hope of Christ's only return to judgement and those who transport it into the stratosphere of their own esoteric speculations"
Two examples of this crass literalism are your ref to Rev.
Revelation 1:12-13 states that what John see's is not to be taken literally when he records something \ one is "like" _________. To say "like" does not mean " literally is". Because John is being shown from God's perspective; all descriptions of people \ Satan, God's throne, churchs, numbers are figurative or symbolical.
The second error is that you're reading Rev as it must be a chronological order when instead it's not. Only Millennialism is dectating that God must do #1, then #2, then #3 ... and so on and then apply some term like "this is the church age" . Again those definitions are "the stratosphere of their own esoteric speculations" .
As was pointed out to you before; Daniel's vision in which he himself was clueless about it and after asking for an explanation was to told to mind his own business, seems to completely go beyond your ability to grasp the fact that you're treading the same forbidden zone.
That is why (again) theologians who understand and know the truth judge millennialism and those who promote it as "belong to the scoffers who, Peter warned, would come, "scoffing and following their own evil desires" (2 Peter 3:3).
There is plenty of sources for you to research why Amillennialism is what scriptures teach. It's not for me to do your research only for you to catagorically reject it from the get go. I'm confident that Millennialism is false, for Millennialists have nothing but a failed tract record as proof.
I don't like that word "rapture". The second coming of Christ will be VERY apparent, no secret. It is like D-Day, the 6th of June was. Before it happened it was a big secret that only a select few knew about. But when it finally happens it will be seen throughout the whole world, just like D-Day was global news. No secret there. As lightning comes from the east to the west and the Lord will descend with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, with the trumpet of God is no secret when it happens.
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