Why do so few traditionalists rejoice in the idea of the suffering of the damned anymore? (Gospel, hell)
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Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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It was a common theme among many respected Church fathers that the torments of the damned would give pleasure to the elect...yes, PLEASURE. Yet it seems a sentiment either rarely felt or rarely admitted to these days. What makes this idea so abhorrent to us today, yet seemed so natural to these early Christians? Many great martyrs held on to the hope of divine vengeance against their enemies. Should this make us question what was really going on in their heart, or is it HOLY to feel that way, because God will feel this way when he sees impenitent sinners?
While the Bible never says God derives joy from watching the damned, Revelation, for instance, seems to derive a satisfaction from seeing them get their just desserts. So what made men like Calvin, Augustine, Furniss, Edwards.etc feel this way? Was it just a barbaric age, where they were exposed to a lot more direct evil.etc? Were they simply heartless? Were people less merciful/soft-hearted back then?
Or do Christians want to soften their message because it sounds too harsh these days? I don't believe people have changed that much. People have probably always seen such a notion as sort of twisted, but then again a lot of ancients rejoiced in revenge. Is it revenge, pure and simple?
Please stay to the topic. Not a generalised topic about universalism vs ET, or the validity or any beliefs, as has been debated ad nauseum.
It was a common theme among many respected Church fathers that the torments of the damned would give pleasure to the elect...yes, PLEASURE. .
Umm. No.
Moderator cut: delete
The loss of one soul to hell causes sadness to the Christian. Thus the call to preach the gospel to all the world so all may be saved. So said Jesus.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 12-26-2012 at 08:57 PM..
Reason: Bait for debating Universalism
The loss of one soul to hell causes sadness to the Christian. Thus the call to preach the gospel to all the world so all may be saved. So said Jesus.
You would be surprised. I was listening to this preacher doing a sermon on hell and he said saved parents shall watch as their kids are bound hand and foot and cast into hell and they shall say "amen".
Last edited by Miss Blue; 12-26-2012 at 09:03 PM..
It's real simple Trimac. As the world progresses, it becomes more liberal and tolerant of habits, beliefs, and cultures of people that are different than the "norm". In this case, the "norm" is referring to fundamental Christianity. Back in the day, pastors kept people in the pews by preaching about the sins of the heathens and the just desserts they will reap for their sinful ways. This naturally helped in the development of a "holier than thou" mindframe, which has in turn resulted in the hatred towards alternate belief systems and habits, just one of which is homosexuality.
Here's a simple fact. Churches, as with most businesses, need a steady cash flow to survive and press forward. Modern churches have realized that it is in their best interests to not exclude or reject people with alternate beliefs, the negative or positive results of which can be seen directly with the ammounts of the weekly tithings. In my visits to Christian churches over the past several years, I've noticed a much larger plea for tithings from the pastors as I ever have in years past. In some cases, it's almost to the point of pleading with their congregations to be more giving.
While Christian churches still believe in the torments of hell, their message has changed as not to make it a focal point in their sermons. Love and compassion breeds generosity, while stories of death and suffering make most people withdraw from normal interaction. Church elders are not stupid, and it is impairative they market their product to achieve the best results.
Oh come on, you know it's true. You don't want me to start quoting now, do you?
Umm, yea. Have at it. Find some fringe wakco to cite and hold him/her up as the norm. No sane person rejoices in the suffering of others. Why do you say such things? I know of, none of my friends know of and no regular church teaches such things. Not in my town or State.
But yes, please cite some neutral site that gives several examples of Christians smiling, going He, He, burn-baby, burn and suffer!
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,054,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150
Umm, yea. Have at it. Find some fringe wakco to cite and hold him/her up as the norm. No sane person rejoices in the suffering of others. Why do you say such things? I know of, none of my friends know of and no regular church teaches such things. Not in my town or State.
But yes, please cite some neutral site that gives several examples of Christians smiling, going He, He, burn-baby, burn and suffer!
Respected Church fathers wackos, you say? If many had these sentiments don't you think many laypeople would share these sentiments now. Do you think their views were admirable?
But yes, please cite some neutral site that gives several examples of Christians smiling, going He, He, burn-baby, burn and suffer!
Actually you don't have to go that far. There are quite a lot of posts right here on this forum.
A lot of this smilie: and "amen!"'s in response to posts about how only some people are "saved".
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Right on target! --- It's difficult to imagine where these baseless notions and assumptions come from (?) ---