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View Poll Results: Do you consider Jehovah's Witnesses to be part of Christianity?
Yes 24 42.11%
No 33 57.89%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-29-2012, 10:37 PM
 
239 posts, read 191,133 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
who do you mean? You a landmarkist?
I mean the Christians who never came under the Roman church when it came to be and then decided to make other churches bow to them. What's a landmarkist?
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:41 PM
 
810 posts, read 1,431,387 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Had to change names View Post
I did not open my program and check it but you do realize that the 3 translations you mention use a different Greek manuscript than the KJV. All could be a very accurate translation of the manuscript they are translated from. Did you check that out?
I just cut and pasted the first 3 translations under KJV/NKJV...but still that doesn't sound like a legit reason.
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon even shows this on biblestudytools. Even still...the 6000 translation inconsistencies with the name Jehovah within the KJV itself.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:43 PM
 
239 posts, read 191,133 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh View Post
I just cut and pasted the first 3 translations under KJV/NKJV...but still that doesn't sound like a legit reason.
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon even shows this on biblestudytools. Even still...the 6000 translation inconsistencies with the name Jehovah within the KJV itself.
Could be! I was just bringing it up in this case to see if you had checked it out. Sometimes that is the reason the versions differ.

I just took a quick look and Jesus is not in the text the KJV used but is in the WH.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:31 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,070,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh View Post
Since John 1:1 has been debated for 100s of years I don't expect to suddenly solve it here on cd.
No. It really hasn't. It was settled in about the 3rd century. JW's are really just rehashing the old Arianism heresy.
Quote:

The NWT is not the only bible translation that renders it differently than the King James. I use several different translations when I study, and consult Internet sources with even more side by side comparisons. Before the release of the NWT, JWs used the KJV and held the same beliefs. I don't consider the KJV to be THE bible...it is a version. In my opinion, having openly studied from several they all harmonize, and I get the same message from them all.

Something that has always struck me is how fast people are to criticize the translation of the NWT, but overlook the obvious translation inconsistencies in other translations/versions. For example...the KJV uses the name Jehovah in (4?) instances, but then switches and uses LORD in over 6000 other instances. How can you overlook 6000 translation inconsistencies, but focus on John 1:1?!
If you'd look at the original language behind it, it's not that complicated.
Quote:
Another inconsistency I came across while studying side by side comparisons is in Jude 25:
KJV
To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

NLT
All glory to him who alone is God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord. All glory, majesty, power, and authority are his before all time, and in the present, and beyond all time! Amen.


NIV
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
Both of the above translations are not word for word. They are idea for idea. It's not surprising there is a difference. But they both say the same thing..just in different ways.
Quote:
ESV
to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

Notice the KJV omits, "Through Jesus Christ"? When I checked the concordance/inter linear...sure enough it was there. Perhaps a bias in translation in the KJV?
Perhaps a bias. Perhaps a difference in texts that they're based off of. In any event, it's largely a non-sequitur.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:46 AM
 
Location: US
32,529 posts, read 21,807,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
No. It really hasn't. It was settled in about the 3rd century. JW's are really just rehashing the old Arianism heresy.

If you'd look at the original language behind it, it's not that complicated.

Both of the above translations are not word for word. They are idea for idea. It's not surprising there is a difference. But they both say the same thing..just in different ways.

Perhaps a bias. Perhaps a difference in texts that they're based off of. In any event, it's largely a non-sequitur.
Even the Latin vulgate says that HaShem is our Savior THROUGH HaMeshiach Yeshua...And many other foreign translations...Luther seemed to leave out the reference to Yeshua and also the KJV...
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:27 AM
 
15,072 posts, read 6,094,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohirette View Post
They believe that salvation is through Christ. All other pieces of the puzzle exist in various mixes in other denominations; e.g. no Trinity, no fiery hell, etc why do people insist on attacking the JWs for their particular mix?

Their lifestyles are far, far more in line with Christian morality than the vast majority of more catholic churches.

What other organization believes that Christ is the savior, calls themselves Christians, and yet are denied the title by some? It is absurd.
Thank you. I completely agree.
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:10 PM
 
810 posts, read 1,431,387 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
No. It really hasn't. It was settled in about the 3rd century. JW's are really just rehashing the old Arianism heresy.

If you'd look at the original language behind it, it's not that complicated.

Both of the above translations are not word for word. They are idea for idea. It's not surprising there is a difference. But they both say the same thing..just in different ways.

Perhaps a bias. Perhaps a difference in texts that they're based off of. In any event, it's largely a non-sequitur.
Considering this debate goes on pretty much on a daily basis, I would say it hasn't been settled.

Jehovah's Witnesses are not rooted in Arianism or rehashing, we just happen to agree on the issue of the trinity. I don't give much credence to his being called an heretic by the Romans/Catholics... considering what they did to Jesus' teachings. At the time of the formulation of the Nicene and Athenasian creeds, people were spoon fed only what the church wanted them to know for political gains, and murdered for trying to preserve what Jesus taught his apostles.

The truth of the matter is that John 1:1, because of grammatical 'rules', could be translated either way. I happen to agree with the translation, "a god" because it harmonizes with the whole bible.

Go ahead and overlook the inconsistencies in the KJV.

As I've said before I don't need your approval or acceptance. I'm moved to visit these forums to clear up misconceptions about JWs or refute blatant lies. JWs have an official website that will provide scriptural answers to all the questions or claims asserted by posters here on cd....who is Jesus, holidays, heaven/hell, death, soul, etc. Please visit it for the truth about JWs.

Last edited by beeveenh; 12-30-2012 at 03:21 PM.. Reason: Auto correct error
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:58 PM
 
53 posts, read 44,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh View Post
Considering this debate goes on pretty much on a daily basis, I would say it hasn't been settled.

Jehovah's Witnesses are not rooted in Arianism or rehashing, we just happen to agree on the issue of the trinity. I don't give much credence to his being called an heretic by the Romans/Catholics... considering what they did to Jesus' teachings. At the time of the formulation of the Nicene and Athenasian creeds, people were spoon fed only what the church wanted them to know for political gains, and murdered for trying to preserve what Jesus taught his apostles.

The truth of the matter is that John 1:1, because of grammatical 'rules', could be translated either way. I happen to agree with the translation, "a god" because it harmonizes with the whole bible.

Go ahead and overlook the inconsistencies in the KJV.

As I've said before I don't need your approval or acceptance. I'm moved to visit these forums to clear up misconceptions about JWs or refute blatant lies. JWs have an official website that will provide scriptural answers to all the questions or claims asserted by posters here on cd....who is Jesus, holidays, heaven/hell, death, soul, etc. Please visit it for the truth about JWs.
Wonderful. I want to ask you a question.

Do you believe that Jesus body was resurrected after he died? Or do you believe His body remained dead?
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:54 PM
 
810 posts, read 1,431,387 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith Plus Nothing View Post
Wonderful. I want to ask you a question.

Do you believe that Jesus body was resurrected after he died? Or do you believe His body remained dead?
To be completely honest what happened to Jesus' physical body has never troubled me. In the grand scheme of things and the magnitude of his resurrection, the whereabouts and condition of his body has not changed the importance of his sacrifice. I believe that Jesus is THE messiah; God's anointed and only begotten son. I believe he lived a sinless perfect life in subjection to his father, doing his father's will and sanctifying his father's name through his life and preaching. I believe and have faith that his sacrificial death is my ONLY hope for salvation.

I believe that he and his father had the power to do whatever they wanted with the physical body...use it, dissolve it, hide it...who knows? I believe he has the authority and power to materialize in another form if he should so desire. I do wonder why he would need a physical body in Heaven . The fact remains...the condition of his physical body is of no importance when I focus on the magnitude of his action on behalf of me and anyone else who chooses to take of his free gift. After all, isn't that what the bible says?

Under the tab publications, the JW website has a new magazine about our scriptural belief about the resurrection of Jesus.
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:25 PM
 
53 posts, read 44,132 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh View Post
To be completely honest what happened to Jesus' physical body has never troubled me. In the grand scheme of things and the magnitude of his resurrection, the whereabouts and condition of his body has not changed the importance of his sacrifice. I believe that Jesus is THE messiah; God's anointed and only begotten son. I believe he lived a sinless perfect life in subjection to his father, doing his father's will and sanctifying his father's name through his life and preaching. I believe and have faith that his sacrificial death is my ONLY hope for salvation.

I believe that he and his father had the power to do whatever they wanted with the physical body...use it, dissolve it, hide it...who knows? I believe he has the authority and power to materialize in another form if he should so desire. I do wonder why he would need a physical body in Heaven . The fact remains...the condition of his physical body is of no importance when I focus on the magnitude of his action on behalf of me and anyone else who chooses to take of his free gift. After all, isn't that what the bible says?

Under the tab publications, the JW website has a new magazine about our scriptural belief about the resurrection of Jesus.
So is it true that the Watchtower and JW's believe that the body of Jesus was not resurrected? You could answer that with one simple word so we could all see. Would you be willing to answer that for us? Please!
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