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Any thing out side the things Jesus hmself taught is questionable.
I understand your point, but unfortunately there is cause to question most if not all of what Jesus allegedly said.
I do believe Jesus existed and was a great, enlightened teacher. I have no problem believing much of the words and sayings attributed to him were either his direct words or close approximations.
But The Gospels were written decades after he is said to have died...no first hand accounts, no eyewitness testimony, just accumulated sayings kept mostly in oral tradition for a good couple of generations.
And then you have to consider things attributed as sayings of Jesus from other books that were deleted from the biblical canon.
Then you have to consider countless translations, re-translations mis-translations, re-mistranslations, etc., etc. from one language to another and to another from one version of The Bible to another to another...
But to me, it's kind of pointless to quarrel about the historical accuracy of The Gospels (though I admittedly do it all the time!) when so much of what Jesus is said to have spoken is so wondrous and wise and beautiful.
I often think how different the world would be if people tried to practice the religion and spiritual path OF Jesus rather than having church after church ABOUT Jesus.
It's as if someone came along and tried to show us a great road that would lead to peace and joy, but instead of following the road, we stand and argue about the road itself...how long is it?...is it really hilly or winding?...what's it made of?...can you see my house from here?
Don't most denominations have clergy or the governing body to regulate them like the Catholics (Vatican), JWs (Watchtower), and Baptists and Methodists by their own associations? That's the main reason why non-denominations are more popular right now where people can have a more personal relationship with God.
As a Baptist, Baptists don't believe in a Pope, President, or Governing Board of Directors the head our churches. Basically, Baptists strictly adhere to the bible's teaching that Jesus is the head of the church; therefore the head of all Baptist churches.
Baptists would argue that it's not scriptural for any religion to be organized where they have a pope, president, or governing board of directors in charge. Baptist churches are all independently run congregations that are autonomous-with one leader a Pastor shepherding his congregation.
Also, the Baptist church is technically not a denomination, and this may even be a surprise to Baptists when they learn this truth. People automatically think that the Baptist church is a denomination because of the fact that they are not Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, Mormon etc., and thus linking them with all of the other denominations.
But, Baptists don't answer to a pope, president or a governing board who decides whether or not they need to build a congregation, or decide what they will study. The Bible is the Baptist church's main guide, and although Baptists use a Sunday School publication to teach Sunday school , those publications are taken directly from bible verses on biblical topics to help their members grown in the knowledge of God, and to help them learn more about their faith. In other words, they don't use any commentaries or publications that would otherwise supersede what the Bible teaches on a subject.
Now many Baptist churches are part of districts and conventions, and there are many Baptist conventions around the world. The Conventions have an elected president over that particular convention, but those conventions function primarily for the purpose of evangelizing, edifying the members, and preaching the gospel to unsaved persons. Some well known conventions in the USA are the National Baptist Convention, The Southern Baptist Convention, and the Progressive Baptist Convention.
With all of this said, the Baptist church has many sects or division within this religion. I can go on about the difference between Southern Baptists, 7th Day Baptist, and Reformed Baptists.
I agree with what Wikipedia says about Baptist churches: Many Baptist churches choose to affiliate with organizational groups that provide fellowship without control.[4] The largest such group is the Southern Baptist Convention. There also are a substantial number of smaller cooperative groups. Finally, there are Baptist churches that choose to remain autonomous and independent of any denomination, organization, or association.[33]
As a Mormon, I believe that both you and I are Christians. I also agree with you that, "in the end, it doesn't matter what any other human thinks." Some people seem to be of the opinion that when we all stand before God to be judged, He's going to be asking for their input. I think they're going to be in for a very rude awakening when they discover that He has it all under control Himself and doesn't care what they think. When you get right down to it, it's not going to matter to Him how these people judged you or me, but it is going to matter to Him thatthey judged us at all.
I agree with you in that in the end, it doesn't matter what any other human thinks. But, and I mean But, it appears that from the teachings of many religions, some people who are in those religions seem to think that they can leap frog over Jesus by being a Mormon, Catholic, JW, or even Baptist, and that by following those religions' teachings is what would and could save them. That's tragic, cause what Jesus has done for all of us, is what no religion can ever do, and that is die for our sins.
We must follow Jesus and not get caught up in man made religion that's basically a practice. Isn't it interesting that Jesus never took a position on religion, he simply said follow me, and that HE'S THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE, AND NO MAN CAN COME TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME. He couldn't have made it any clearer, yet, what do all of us churchians, and religious folk do, argue and debate doctrine over JESUS. HOW SAD!!
[quote=Griffis;27517449]I understand your point, but unfortunately there is cause to question most if not all of what Jesus allegedly said.
I do believe Jesus existed and was a great, enlightened teacher. I have no problem believing much of the words and sayings attributed to him were either his direct words or close approximations.
But The Gospels were written decades after he is said to have died...no first hand accounts, no eyewitness testimony, just accumulated sayings kept mostly in oral tradition for a good couple of generations.
And then you have to consider things attributed as sayings of Jesus from other books that were deleted from the biblical canon.
Then you have to consider countless translations, re-translations mis-translations, re-mistranslations, etc., etc. from one language to another and to another from one version of The Bible to another to another...
But to me, it's kind of pointless to quarrel about the historical accuracy of The Gospels (though I admittedly do it all the time!) when so much of what Jesus is said to have spoken is so wondrous and wise and beautiful.
I often think how different the world would be if people tried to practice the religion and spiritual path OF Jesus rather than having church after church ABOUT Jesus.
It's as if someone came along and tried to show us a great road that would lead to peace and joy, but instead of following the road, we stand and argue about the road itself...how long is it?...is it really hilly or winding?...what's it made of?...can you see my house from here?[/quote]
I love this. One of the most profound things I've read on CD.
I understand your point, but unfortunately there is cause to question most if not all of what Jesus allegedly said.
I do believe Jesus existed and was a great, enlightened teacher. I have no problem believing much of the words and sayings attributed to him were either his direct words or close approximations.
But The Gospels were written decades after he is said to have died...no first hand accounts, no eyewitness testimony, just accumulated sayings kept mostly in oral tradition for a good couple of generations.
And then you have to consider things attributed as sayings of Jesus from other books that were deleted from the biblical canon.
Then you have to consider countless translations, re-translations mis-translations, re-mistranslations, etc., etc. from one language to another and to another from one version of The Bible to another to another...
But to me, it's kind of pointless to quarrel about the historical accuracy of The Gospels (though I admittedly do it all the time!) when so much of what Jesus is said to have spoken is so wondrous and wise and beautiful.
I often think how different the world would be if people tried to practice the religion and spiritual path OF Jesus rather than having church after church ABOUT Jesus.
It's as if someone came along and tried to show us a great road that would lead to peace and joy, but instead of following the road, we stand and argue about the road itself...how long is it?...is it really hilly or winding?...what's it made of?...can you see my house from here?
I love this. One of the most profound things I've read on CD.
It is quite an insightful and accurate critique of mainstream Christianity.
Yes, I do believe Jehovah's Witnesses to be part of Christianity. I view them and other non-mainstream Christians as people who seeking the Lord that aren't afraid to be a "peculiar people," even amongst other Christians.
Don't most denominations have clergy or the governing body to regulate them like the Catholics (Vatican), JWs (Watchtower), and Baptists and Methodists by their own associations? That's the main reason why non-denominations are more popular right now where people can have a more personal relationship with God.
I believe so as well, I myself am non-denom, though not of the overzealous sort that some associate non-denom churches with.
I am not a fan of any group that has their own "take" on the Bible. It is there written, not to be changed, so to do so in my opinion pushes you further from Christ.
So no, I do not think the JW are true Christians, same as I feel that Catholics are not either. When you are part of a governing religious body that has you doing things that the Bible says you should not, you should run, fast.
Don't most denominations have clergy or the governing body to regulate them like the Catholics (Vatican), JWs (Watchtower), and Baptists and Methodists by their own associations? That's the main reason why non-denominations are more popular right now where people can have a more personal relationship with God.
The Methodist are governed from the top down. The Baptist are all local independent churches that govern themselves even if they belong to an association it is not a governing body.
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