Debunking the debunkers: A defense of the traditional date for Christ's birth (believe, dogma)
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Nevermind defending the date of Christ's birth...hell, defend this idea that he ever existed in the first place. You can't even do that yet, so nevermind his birthdate.
How much do Christians know or want to know about the Jewish, Buddihst, Hindu and Muslim holidays?
I would imagine that Christians living in Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu or Muslim lands would want to know something about the holidays celebrated by most of their neighbors. I certainly would. Likewise, non-Christians living in America - the best of them, anyway - should want to know something about the origins of Christian holy days.
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Originally Posted by middle-aged mom
Last I checked, Jews, Buddists, Hindus and Muslims do not celebrate Christmas just as Christians do not celebrate the holidays of other religions.
Try to follow the conversation. I was responding to Mateo45 who wrote: "And BTW, these kinda 'debates' are irrelevant in a world where now even Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims and folks of many other faiths increasingly observe 'Christmas'''. I have Buddhist relatives from SE Asia who celebrate Christmas.
"Isn't it better, now that the Western Christmas has been so commercialized and paganized, that we have a separate date where we worship in spirit and in truth, away from the noise, drunkenness, gluttony and immorality of the December Christmas practices? Many of our children and youth, born and raised here, have voiced this opinion."
The dates don't have to match up to Saturnalia. The whole week of the Winter Solstace was a week of celebration and depending on what day the solstace actually fell upon, it would be celebrated on another day - must like what we do to this day. The early church did not celebrate the birth of The Christ (at least no writings seem to indicate this and it isn't mentioned in the Didache and extra-biblical writings), so when the early Catholic church decided to use the festive time of the Winter Solstace, it was meant to be festival specific - not day specific. There doesn't seem to be any indication that anyone knew when Jesus was born. The Eastern Church (at the same time) decided that January 6th would be the day to observe it, but with a week's worth of celebration leading up to this. The syncretisation of both the western and eastern church's slightly different practices, led to the Advent practice followed by the 12 Days of Christmas.
A son of a minister (ha! fooled y'all with that last word, didn't I) told me that December 25 was chosen b/c it is the first day after the solstice when the days start to get longer again.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim
I would like to think that even Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and Muslims might like to know something about the origins of the holiday (i.e., holy day) they have chosen to celebrate.
Perhaps, and like you I also have asian friends overseas who celebrate it, I think mainly for their kids and younger folks who've become accustomed to seeing it on western media. BTW, it's funny, a Vietnamese friend over here was recently telling me how fussy her 5 year old is already about the decorations for their house and tree (and they're all buddhists...lol)! But otherwise I suspect they have no more interest in the ''origins'', than I do about the history of Judaism when I wish my Jewish friends a Happy Hannukah.
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Jesus Christ and His Church own the holiday. There would be no Christmas otherwise, for anyone.
No offense, but the reality is that the world has adopted the holiday for its own ends, regardless the "ownership". Or as the saying goes, "possession is 9/10 of the law"... and the faux "war on Christmas" ain't helping that remaining "1/10". Besides, what's more important, quarreling over His birthday, or remembering (and practicing) the universality of His message, 'Peace on Earth, Goodwill Toward Men'?
Last edited by mateo45; 12-28-2012 at 07:19 PM..
Reason: spell..
Nevermind defending the date of Christ's birth...hell, defend this idea that he ever existed in the first place. You can't even do that yet, so nevermind his birthdate.
That is true. It is very possible he is a composite.
"The date of December 25th only became the 'Birthday of the Unconquered Sun' under the Emperor Julian the Apostate. Julian the Apostate had been a Christian but who had apostatized and returned to Roman paganism. History reveals that it was the hateful former Christian Emperor that erected a pagan holiday on December 25. Think about that for a moment. What was he trying to replace?"
I take it you have never heard of the Mithraic mysteries.
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