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I guess only thing worse than Sola Scriptura, is a bunch of guys making up rules for the church to follow. No, the Scriptures are inspired, and to get the full meaning, you will have to understand it in it's original language and context. Yet the key for doctrine, is to let Scripture interpret Scripture, and the Holy Spirit will confirm and bring to our remembrance things about what is said. He's confirming Jesus to us, because Jesus is the Word.
Sola Scriptura is pure arrogance, pure evil, and the single biggest cause of division in the Christian world.
I wouldn't go so far as to say it's "pure evil," (that comes across as unnecessesarily inflamatory, in my opinion) but I would agree that it is most definitely unbiblical and a major cause of divisiveness between Christians.
I'd like to have a shot at answering that, Visio. Then you can tell me if I'm right or not. When I hear someone say that they accept "Sola Scriptura," I believe they are saying that they believe that the Bible is to be our sole source of information with respect to God's word, that the Bible is complete and therefore contains every last bit truth we need to guide us in our spiritual quest.
The biggest problem with the doctrine of Sola Scriptura from this perspective is that there is no list, in the Bible, of what books should be, in the Bible.
However Jesus said what the OT was:
Luke 24:44
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and thePsalms.”
Jesus said in the parable:
Luke 16:29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
And Jesus also said
Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.
Thus the current OT (the 5 books of Moses, the prophets, Psalms) is one list
Then about the NT:
Peter states Paul's letters are SCRIPTURES --- 2 Peter 3:16
Peter claims of other Apostle's writing were not of their doing --- 2 Peter 1:16 (Apostle's only)
John writes about what was written was enough for eternal life --- John 20:31
Paul warns of fake letters coming from the Apostles being circulated 2 Thessalonians 2:2
Conclusion .... we know that the Apostles guarded their work as scripture which came from them.
Therefore the current NT is the other list defined as scripture.
The division of Christianity is the fault from those who claim other sources \ more to come.
I'd like to have a shot at answering that, Visio. Then you can tell me if I'm right or not. When I hear someone say that they accept "Sola Scriptura," I believe they are saying that they believe that the Bible is to be our sole source of information with respect to God's word, that the Bible is complete and therefore contains every last bit truth we need to guide us in our spiritual quest.
Nope.
Sola Scriptura means that scripture is the only infallible, final source. We have no problem using tradition, church history, etc. But when a question arises regarding the nature of God, Scripture is our final authority.
The Catholic church claims that they believe Scripture to be inspired. In truth, it takes a position lower than that of the church. There are a lot of problems with the Catholic church...but they refuse to take a hard look at their doctrine because they place their dogma above Scripture.
Sola Scriptura means that scripture is the only infallible, final source. We have no problem using tradition, church history, etc. But when a question arises regarding the nature of God, Scripture is our final authority.
Okay, thanks. I'd have to say, though, that with regards to the nature of God, scripture does seem to take a back seat to the 4th and 5th century Creeds (for both Protestants and Catholics).
Quote:
The Catholic church claims that they believe Scripture to be inspired. In truth, it takes a position lower than that of the church. There are a lot of problems with the Catholic church...but they refuse to take a hard look at their doctrine because they place their dogma above Scripture.
Could you provide me with an example of where Catholicism has placed their own dogma above scripture? In other words, give me a specific doctrine as described in the scriptures and show me where Catholicism has delegated it to a lower position than what their non-scriptural doctrine teaches.
And just one more question... is it only with regards to the nature of God that scripture is the only infallible, final source? What about other matters, for example faith versus works, the need for baptism and how it must be performed, whether one can subsequently fall from grace having once been "saved," etc.
Sola Scriptura means that scripture is the only infallible, final source. We have no problem using tradition, church history, etc. But when a question arises regarding the nature of God, Scripture is our final authority.
The Catholic church claims that they believe Scripture to be inspired. In truth, it takes a position lower than that of the church. There are a lot of problems with the Catholic church...but they refuse to take a hard look at their doctrine because they place their dogma above Scripture.
Good definition -- Actually Wickipedia says something similar: Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by scripture alone") is the doctrine that the Bible contains all knowledge necessary for salvation and holiness. Consequently, sola scriptura demands only those doctrines are to be admitted or confessed that are found directly within or indirectly by using valid logical deduction or valid deductive reasoning from scripture. However, sola scriptura is not a denial of other authorities governing Christian life and devotion. Rather, it simply demands that all other authorities are subordinate to, and are to be corrected by, the written word of God. Sola scriptura was a foundational doctrinal principle of the Protestant Reformation held by the Reformers and is a formal principle of Protestantism today (see Five solas).
I'm not entirely conversant in all of the dogmas of the Catholic church, BUT, see what I believe is a direct contradiction of scripture in areas of Papal infallibility, Veneration of the saints, 'Deification of Mary', Holy Orders and what looks a great deal like idolatry when it comes to icons, the mother church and a host of other things. The addition of the Apocryphal in the Catholic Bible also concerns me for the same reasons that the Apocryphal was NOT included in the Protestant Bible (Not referenced elsewhere in scripture or by Jesus or the Apostles ... and several other issues not relevant to this thread).
The OP's arbitrary declaration that "Sola Scriptura is pure arrogance, pure evil, and the single biggest cause of division in the Christian world" is little more than an 'angry-looking cloud, ... without any real rain'
Last edited by jghorton; 02-27-2013 at 05:20 PM..
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