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Old 05-17-2013, 06:52 AM
 
Location: LOITOKITOK KENYA
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With regards to Christianity claim of being a monotheism religion, I have always wondered how that is possibly true given the fact of the existence of trinity - God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit?
Again most Christians though are followers of Jesus Christ to the core. Jesus is an active part and God and Holy Spirit are treated passively. To me this speaks of a preference of one god against all the others.
That aside, in most writings in the Gospels, Jesus failed to assign himself the role of being God or a god and instead of that maintained that he was "The Son of Man ......"; an assertion that is found in nearly all of the Gospel.
His God status proliferated mostly in other latter books after Gospel. Nearly most of the Christians you meet talk mostly about Christ and less of God and that too is not helped by the fact that most books that have been written in modern days strive to tell us more of Jesus and God on periphery. When he resurrected, he talked about ushering in a new helper (not the holy spirit until the day of Pentecost).

Can those that are enlightened elaborate for us so that we can tell where to to truly file Christianity. Monotheism or Polytheism given the fact that we must if we maintain Christianity as it is today emerge with picture of monotheism that does not ignore the other two Gods?
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:00 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
26,114 posts, read 19,231,227 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIBO View Post
With regards to Christianity claim of being a monotheism religion, I have always wondered how that is possibly true given the fact of the existence of trinity - God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit?
Again most Christians though are followers of Jesus Christ to the core. Jesus is an active part and God and Holy Spirit are treated passively. To me this speaks of a preference of one god against all the others.
That aside, in most writings in the Gospels, Jesus failed to assign himself the role of being God or a god and instead of that maintained that he was "The Son of Man ......"; an assertion that is found in nearly all of the Gospel.
His God status proliferated mostly in other latter books after Gospel. Nearly most of the Christians you meet talk mostly about Christ and less of God and that too is not helped by the fact that most books that have been written in modern days strive to tell us more of Jesus and God on periphery. When he resurrected, he talked about ushering in a new helper (not the holy spirit until the day of Pentecost).

Can those that are enlightened elaborate for us so that we can tell where to to truly file Christianity. Monotheism or Polytheism given the fact that we must if we maintain Christianity as it is today emerge with picture of monotheism that does not ignore the other two Gods?
Hi KIBO. What needs to be understood is that the tri-unity of God does not imply tri-theism. In other words, the fact that God exists as three Persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, does not mean that there are three different gods. God is One in one way, and three in a different way. There are three Persons, or centers of consciousness, that are God. But God is one in His essence or nature or substance. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are clearly identified in the Scriptures as distinct Persons with specific functions related to God's plan. And yet they are united in their attributes and nature. In God there is both plurality and unity - one essence subsisting in three Persons. I like the way that Lewis Sperry Chafer put it.
The term personality as applied to God is not to be understood or taken in its strict philosophical sense, in which case wholly distinct beings are indicated. God is one Being, but He is more than one Being in three relations. Well-defined acts which are personal in character are ascribed to each Person of the Three. These acts unequivocally establish personality. Language labors under difficulties at this point. The Persons are not separate, but distinct. The Trinity is composed of three united Persons without separate existence---so completely united as to form One God. The divine nature subsists in three distinctions---Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. [Systematic Theology, Lewis Sperry Chafer, Vol 1, pg. 276]
While the word ''Trinity'' is not found in Scripture, it is a theological term which describes the existence of a three-fold Personality in one Divine Being. The Bible, and therefore Christianity does not teach Polytheism - many gods, nor Tritheism - three gods, but Monotheism - one God who is three in Person but one in essence.

While Jesus did prefer to refer to Himself as the Son of Man, He did on occasion call Himself the Son of God. He also referred to Himself as 'I am', for example in John 8:58 when He referred to His pre-existence by stating that before Abraham was born, 'I am.' That is a clear statement of the pre-existence of the deity of Christ.

When Peter called Jesus the Son of the living God, Jesus affirmed the validity of the statement (Matthew 16:16-17). He referred to Himself as the Son of God in John 10:36. Satan knew that Jesus was the Son of God and tempted Jesus to use His deity to turn stones into bread in Matthew 4:3. But during His first Advent Jesus refrained from using His deity independently from the Father's plan in order to benefit Himself and so refused to ease His hunger by turning those stones into bread.

Jesus is called Yahweh in Zechariah 14:3 (that's Old Testament) which is a prophecy of Jesus' Second Advent at which time He will step foot on the Mount of Olives. It is Jesus who will return to the earth at the end of the Tribulation and destroy the armies which oppose Him. Compare Zechariah 14:2-4 with Revelation 19:14-21. And Jesus is referred to as 'the LORD, my God' in Zechariah 14:5.

Also Jesus is called God by Paul in Philippians 2:6. Phillippians was written before the Gospel accounts were.

Jesus is the revealed Person of the Godhead and it is through Jesus that one comes to the Father. The Old Testament points to Jesus Christ. No one can have a relationship with the Father except through Jesus Christ.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
I hope that helps.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:34 PM
 
19,943 posts, read 14,754,827 times
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Yes. It's monotheistic. You need to properly understand the concept of the Trinity. It's been explained on here more times than I can count, to be honest. There are not 3 Gods...there is only one.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Arizona
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A version of the Tower of Babylon!
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 8,658,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIBO View Post
With regards to Christianity claim of being a monotheism religion, I have always wondered how that is possibly true given the fact of the existence of trinity - God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit?
It seems to me that the problem is the attempt to apply physical limitations to spiritual perceptions. "Trinity" is a mystical concept, and if it doesn't work for you, it is not a requirement to receive the love of God through His Son, regardless of what hard line orthodoxy proponents say.
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:30 AM
 
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Regarding the OP...

God the Father is the only true God. Jesus said so.

John 17:3 - "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."

The Father is also spoken of here by Paul...

1 Timothy 6:13-16 - 13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which He (God the Father) will bring about at the proper time--He (God the Father) who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

Also John said this...

John 1:18 - No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God (Jesus) who is in the bosom of the Father, He (Jesus) has explained Him (God).

When we pray - we pray to the Father, just like Jesus did. Jesus was sent to glorify Him, just like we should do..

Matthew 6:9 - "Pray, then, in this way: `Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name.

John 17:1 - Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You,

John 17:22 - "The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;

All that to say God the Father is the one fully in charge of everything from Jesus to Satan. He is the one true God.

-----------------------------------------

The reason Jesus Christ is God is because God gave Him the title and authority.

John 5:21-23 - 21 "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. 22 "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 5:26-27 - "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

So it seems like there are two "gods" - but there is only One true God, who has given authority to another to be God. The Father possesses life in Himself. Jesus did not - until the Father gave Him the ability to have life in Himself.

The author of Hebrews writes...

Hebrews 1:1-13 (caps are from NASB translation)
1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son (Jesus), whom He (God the Father) appointed heir of all things, through whom (Jesus) also He (God) made the world. 3 And He (Jesus) is the radiance of His (God's) glory and the exact representation of His (God's) nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He (Jesus) had made purification of sins, He (Jesus) sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high (God),

4 having become as much better than the angels, as He (Jesus) has inherited a more excellent name than they. 5 For to which of the angels did He (God) ever say, "YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"? And again, "I (God) WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM (Jesus) AND HE (Jesus) SHALL BE A SON TO ME (God)"? 6 And when He (God) again brings the firstborn (Jesus) into the world, He (God) says, "AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM." 7 And of the angels He (God) says, "WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS, AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE." 8 But of the Son (Jesus) He (God) says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD (Jesus), IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM. 9 "YOU (Jesus) HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD (Jesus), YOUR GOD (God the Father), HAS ANOINTED YOU (Jesus) WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS." 10 And, "YOU (Jesus), LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR (Jesus) HANDS; 11 THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU (Jesus) REMAIN; AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT, 12 AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU (Jesus) WILL ROLL THEM UP; LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED. BUT YOU (Jesus) ARE THE SAME, AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END."

Everything from verse 8 thru 13 is God speaking to Jesus - and in verse 8 and 9 the Father calls Jesus God. Again - God the Father has given Christ this authority.

---------------------------------------------

There's not as much on the Holy Spirit. But He has equal standing with God the Father and Jesus Christ. He is part of creation in Gen 1:2. He is part of the Great Commission in Matthew 28:18-20. He is referred to as God in Acts 5:3-4. He was involved in the virgin birth (Luke 1:35).

We don't to pray to the Spirit - we pray to the Father. The Spirit did not give Jesus the authority that He has - God did.

----------------------------------------------

So while God has given authority to Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, He is God. Our belief in God is monotheistic. He has made it so that we must honor the Son to honor the Father. Those are His terms. So nothing is wrong - there is no polytheism. The Father has set Christ as the way we access Him.

Last edited by DRob4JC; 05-18-2013 at 12:41 AM..
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:38 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
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Polytheist clearly. The whole three in one argument, is just a bit of denial ie - we're "different" because we're mono.
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:42 AM
 
35,213 posts, read 18,683,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Polytheist clearly. The whole three in one argument, is just a bit of denial.
No denial - only misunderstanding and unbelief.
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Old 05-18-2013, 01:09 AM
 
670 posts, read 714,414 times
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God is one. Not three. God is limitless and unchanging not Jesus a mere man.

Deuteronomy 6:4 – Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.

Deuteronomy 4:15-19 – And you shall watch yourselves very well, for you did not
see not any image on the day that the Lord spoke to you
at Horeb from the midst of the
fire. Lest you become corrupt and make for yourselves a graven image, the
representation of any form, the likeness of male or female, the likeness of any
beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged bird that flies in the heaven,
the likeness of anything that crawls on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in
the waters, beneath the earth. And lest you lift up your eyes to heaven, and see the
sun, and the moon, and the stars, all the host of heaven, which the Lord your God
assigned to all peoples under the entire heaven, and be drawn away to prostrate
yourselves before them and worship them.

Numbers 23:19 – God is not a man that He should lie, nor is He a mortal that He should
relent. Would He say and not do, speak and not fulfill?

1 Samuel 15:29 - And also, the Eternal One of Israel will neither lie nor repent, for He is
not a man to repent."

Job 9:32 - For He is not man like I am, that I should answer Him, 'Let us come together
in debate.'

"When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.” - What this means is that prior to his baptism the spirit of God was not with Jesus, for the Spirit of God to have to come to Jesus it makes logical since that Jesus is not God, but merely a child of God.

"The son can do nothing with out his father." - Because Jesus get's his authority from God and God could take it away, Jesus had borrowed Authorities.

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" - If Jesus is God then why must he go to his father, why would he have a God if he where God? My response, it's because he is not God he is just Gods begotten child.
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Old 05-18-2013, 05:32 AM
 
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True Christianity believes is one God which is the essence of monotheist ideas , ..Which is confusing to carnal minds which views things of God like people of the earth ...So their logic of image of people identifies their image of God which is error ............. The hardest part of all this is that Jesus said He is to reject people who believe in a different ideas of God from entering Heaven after their passing from this world ................ One idea of understanding of one God through the trinity is that polytheism is rejected is that the devil and the fallen angels and demons were kicked out of heaven to the earth because of their controls in their existence threaten to complicate Gods ideas of One God , as most of the fallen spirits had ideas which they wanted to be gods , which would have made the polytheism or pantheism , which would be corrupted God plans ............... So there are No devils or fallen angels and demons spirit in Heaven , which many literal believer believe ....
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